Breaking up is hard to do !

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
1

Hi all,

Havent posted a thread for a while so here goes…

Just wondering if any of you have split from your original Sifu, what were the reasons, was it amicable, do you stay in touch, is there any bitterness. Dont expect anyone to give names, just their experiences.

I split from my original teacher about two years ago and he does not stay in touch. I am pretty gutted about this to say the least - i have always credited him as the person who taught me Wing Chun, as my first Sifu, as a great person and have made many atempts to stay in touch. I didnt always agree with his understanding of techniques or applications, but surely it is a students right to question as well as absorb. I admit i was not always a perfect student, but i always acknowledged my mistakes and attempted to put things right.

Sorry if this is a depressing thread, but i get really down about the fact he does not stay in touch. Not one call asking how my club is going, nothing. I really dont understand it. I am getting married next year and would love to invite hin to my wedding as my old teacher and good friend, but wonder whether to accept the fact that those days are gone and just face up to things.

I chose another path thats all, surely no reason to break all ties. No doubt the whole politics thing is a factor which really sucks.

Sifu if youre out there, give me a call.

Peace not politics!

Regards, Stuart:confused:

2

Sorry to be brutal, but it sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it too.

You wanted to split from him, but you expect him to still be friends? It wouldn’t work with a boss you left high and dry in the middle of an important project, or an ex-wife you left to look after your kids.

You exercised free will by splitting, he’s exercising it by deciding he doesn’t want to keep in touch. If YOU got rejected, would you come back for more?

Accept the consequences of your decision. Get over it.

My Sifu split from his for good reason. He knew they’d probably never speak again. They haven’t.

It might be a slap in the face. Ask yourself whether maybe that’s what you deserved?

3

Anerlich ( as he often is)---- on target.

4

Andrew and Joy have very valid points. Sometimes we think in terms of paying for a service, but from a teacher’s perspective, their work with us is often a very deep and committed investment. When a student leaves, for whatever reason, it can be sometimes be felt as a great loss or hurt.

I would caution against assuming too much though, there are many other possibilities. Perhaps a hectic schedule and other priorities are a factor. Or possibly there are other unrelated things going on in his life impacting either his time or feelings.

It is good to remember that we cannot fix everything, nor can we “control” how others may act or feel. One thing that won’t help the situation is too imagine too much, make too many assumptions, or take it too personally. Don’t let negative energy beget negative energy. Better to let things be. By allowing time to do its own work, it sometimes aids healing in miraculous ways.

As always, just some loose thoughts. I get diarrhea of the mind sometimes, LOL.

Regards,

  • Kathy Jo
5

Thanks , but have to disagree. I dont expect anything, just a conversations or a phone call here or there. I paid for his time and committed a lot of my time to his Wing Chun development too.

Neither did i leave him high or dry! Would you stay in an unhappy marriage? I never fell out with him persoanlly, just preferred a different Wing Chun lineage.

Moreover, i didnt leave until his class was up and running for over a year and was well established! I also helped him publicise his class and trained with many of his new students privately and on a friendly basis.

I was also his first Wing Chun students and was there with him throughout the whole process of going form private teaching, to opening a class etc

Im far from perfect, but i cant see what ive done is so bad that i dont even get the odd phone call!!

It is probably time just to accept it an dmove on though, its just not in my nature to fall out with people. Imsuer everyone here who has ‘moved on’ will neverforget their first sifu though.

Cheers, Stuart

6

Hi Stuart

I remember in a previous post you saying you studied under Sam Kwok (I could be wrong).

Does this mean you’ve left Kwok? Or are you referring to the move from one Ip brother to the other?

Either way - sorry to hear the spit wasn’t as friendly as you’d have liked. It sounds like it sucks.

:frowning:

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Hi Stuart,

Being a nice guy to others, you expect the same courtesy done to you. This is a sticky point of human bondage. If it will be any comfort for you, watch “Guess who’s coming to dinner?”. All young birds must spread their wings at some point and leave their parents behind. Your past teachers should understand it enough to let you go without bitterness. Their jobs are to help you to be well on your own path. Why do they grumble if you actually do it well? C’est la Vie not toi but moi vie!

Regards,

8

Originally posted by stuartm
Thanks , but have to disagree. I dont expect anything, just a conversations or a phone call here or there. I paid for his time and committed a lot of my time to his Wing Chun development too.

Of course. It goes both ways.

Neither did i leave him high or dry! Would you stay in an unhappy marriage? I never fell out with him persoanlly, just preferred a different Wing Chun lineage.

In my case, my first sifu moved away, creating a more natural opportunity for transition to an approach and lineage better suited for my predilections and needs.


Moreover, i didnt leave until his class was up and running for over a year and was well established! I also helped him publicise his class and trained with many of his new students privately and on a friendly basis.

I too did my best to be supportive of my first sifu(s), even during and after the transition period(s). I will always be grateful for my start in Wing Chun, for their generosity and kindness to me in sharing of themselves.


I was also his first Wing Chun students and was there with him throughout the whole process of going form private teaching, to opening a class etc

If (and it may not even be relelvant) he is feeling badly or experiencing a sense of loss, perhaps all the more so because of a special affinity for you.


Im far from perfect, but i cant see what ive done is so bad that i dont even get the odd phone call!!

Again, some food for thought about taking things personally.


It is probably time just to accept it an dmove on though,

Sometimes it is.


its just not in my nature to fall out with people.

Boy, can I relate. And on those rare occasions when it happens, it tends to floor me. But as I’m getting older and more experienced, I tend not to lose my perspective and balance quite as often or as easily. Now go ahead and take your best shot, LOL.

Imsuer everyone here who has ‘moved on’ will neverforget their first sifu though.[/B]

You are so right about that. I will always remember my first teacher and my other early mentors with gratitude and fondness.

Regards,

  • Kathy Jo
9

I wont pretend to know your position nor judge what happened. There is not enought info or time to do so here. But I would say that Andrew may have a point, however he may not. Depends on many other factors.

My point is more about friendship, loyalty, dedication, faith, etc. Some people expect their students to have blond faith in what is taught. Not to question. If you question, then you in a sense are questioning the sifu. This may be a highy sought after trait, but some still cling to the older traditional views of sifu and student. This of course depends on your sifu.

One may fell you were not loyal if you went to a different line. I am not clear if your going a different line was the cause or effect of the split. But if it was the cause, then your sifu may feel your not loyal and wanted to sever ties.

I don’t want this to sound like we are beating you up. LOL. You do have certain choices and can do what you want. However, remember that a school is ran by the teacher and obviously if one wants to participate one must follow the “rules”, spelled out or not.

There is also a chance that your sifu is crazy and silly. Perhaps there was no real reason. Hard to say with the info you have given.

I have put myself in a bit of a situation. One of the last things I wanted to do is to upset anyone. I have had a great fortune to study under or with two excellent, in my POV, people. There are some issues between the lineages as there was a break. I would love to keep all options open and not upset either camp. I myself am loyal and dedicated to both. And heck, all I want is to learn good kung fu and make friends along the way. But sometimes things don’t work that simply and we probably should be aware of our actions. Martial arts are still like family and people do get hurt when people make certain deciscions.

Tom

Marijuana Vaporizer

10

LOL

expect their students to have blond faith

I know what you meant, but I’m still going to use the expression Blond Faith in conversations from now on.

:smiley:

11

Unfortunately childishness and ego is rife in martial arts and in the case of TWC/WC/WT often at the highest levels.
Your ex Sifu’s feelings are hurt, boo hoo. It sounds like you’ve done your best to be reasonable, fair and maintain your personal relationship. Send him a lollypop in the mail and move on.

12

As I posted a short while ago, I split from what turned out to be a shady Karate instructor. It was rough, as I’d invested alot of time, money, and self into the experience, and it turned out to be rougher still since he was so shady (even had to get a lawyer to prove he’d forged my name on some documents which were about to get litigated). Those are relatively easy, though, since the “bad” becomes rather apparent.

In the end, everything is a two way street. This isn’t the movies. Students pay for services rendered, and teachers teach for remunerations offered. Like with any contract, it needs to be mutually beneficial, and can be breeched by either.

Since we’re dealing with people, and with an art that follows the Confuscian family system (even if sometimes bizarrely warped), emotions get involved there too, but its still a two way street. Teachers need to be loyal to their students, not just expect loyalty, and students need to be devoted to their teachers, not just expect devotion.

But, if for whatever reason, the relationship turns harmful to one or both of you, end it. Do it respectfully, inform the other party why you’re ending it, but don’t enter into a discussion. If you just want to be convinced to stay, its an attention grab and whatever you get won’t be long lasting.

Then, when you do break, keep it clean. Act as respectful and proper as you can in public, and if they act badly, leave it to reflect on them.

You can’t control others, only yourself. In the end, its your WCK that needs to grow, do what you need to do to let it.

Just make sure. Real sure. Often you can’t go back.

13

Not that you should listen to me

I am getting married next year and would love to invite hin to my wedding as my old teacher and good friend, but wonder whether to accept the fact that those days are gone and just face up to things.
It seems to me that there are a few things- death, birth, marriage, etc.- where its good policy to ‘leave your ego at the door’. To not do so is bad form for a human being, let alone a martial artist- not that I’m perfect!- nobody is. Give him an invite, but let his behavior from that dictate whatever future dealings you may have with him…

And the warmest of wishes for your new life! Congrats :slight_smile:

14

Hi all,

Thanks for the comments, they are all really helpful.

B&B - my instructor is still Sifu Kwok who i represent down here in south Wales. You are right on the other count though, i did leave my original instructor because i was keen to follow the Ip Ching emphasis via my teacher. I just felt it suited me more.

time to move on i think…

Best wishes, Stuart :wink:

15

Invite him to the wedding.

If he doesn’t come, it’s history and enjoy your new life without him.

If he comes, good!

Don’t understand what you mean by not staying in touch… do you ever give him a call, ask him how it’s going, refer students to him who you think may be well suited/closer geographically to his school, pop back for the occasional roll, invite him for a beer…?

Staying in touch is a two-way street, honey!:smiley:

Whooooooheeeeeee!:D:D:D
You wanted to split from him, but you expect him to still be friends? It wouldn’t work with a boss you left high and dry in the middle of an important project, or an ex-wife you left to look after your kids.

Anerlich, this analogy must be a crock of ****!!! It’s a road, there’s no middle of the project, just occasional forks… whose kids!!!:stuck_out_tongue:

:frowning: OK, it’s lame, but it’s all I’ve got on you so far!:smiley: