I wanted to get a thread going on people’s views of who they think puts out the best DVD’s ( they can be instructionals or not) on WC and WHY they believe those DVD’s to be top notch.
This is not about learning from a DVD, though some are better than others for that, nor is it about whether one CAN learn from a DVD, that is another topic.
Its about which DVD’s seem to, in your opinion, show WC how it is “supposed” to be done.
i checked out michael wongs and william cheungs dvds form the library a few months back and was very impressed with not only their skill but with how thurough the instruction was
what i liked about it specifically was how basic and to the point the applications were
[QUOTE=goju;993668]i checked out michael wongs and william cheungs dvds form the library a few months back and was very impressed with not only their skill but with how thurough the instruction was
what i liked about it specifically was how basic and to the point the applications were[/QUOTE]
Links would be nice…
off the top of my head i believe i viewed cheungs volume 1-5
http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=TC1JdWwycWuRpZzN6b1E&wing-chun-william-cheung
http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=NU1DM1dEcWuRpbUxXNzQ&william-cheung-biuji
http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=eXp4QnJWcWuRpVXMzQlk&wing-chun-chum-kiu-video-preview
http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=WDJzOFlCcWuRpTFItZjQ&wing-chun-dummy-116-video-preview
what i like about these is that the trapping was simple and to the point
a simple block folowed by a strike not a giant mash up of nine blocks to deal with one punch
even in other arts like goju they tend to over complicate it and it ends up looking like paddy cake paddy cake or kenpo hands(lol)
im sure theres more on the vids but im horrible at finding stuff on the net sorry:D
I got the LT videos a while back, but was so unimpressed with them that I left them with a friend who wanted to see them and forgot all about them.
Until just now that is.
David Peterson’s DVD’s (SNT, Chum Kiu and Mok Jong) are excellent. All of them are over 2 1/2 hrs long, lots of details about the how’s and why’s and some applications too. Of course David is from the WSL line.
Gary Lam’s are good as well. Gary in person is just like he is on the DVD’s, plus he gives away allot of gems on his DVD’s, sometimes not sticking to the subject. I really like his early stuff, which was much less scripted and more natural Gary. Gary is probably the best representative of “natural” Wing Chun, as when you see him in person or on the DVD’s you don’t quite see the basics in him or strict fixed postures, as everything he uses he applies the rule of economy of motion, which is just using that much of it that you need.
I picked up Alan Orr’s NHB DVD series, it’s excellent as well, tons of good stuff on those, mixed in with MMA & real life applications and drills. Alan explains their body structure method very well, and has some interesting takes on standing grappling (chin na) that is within the Wing Chun system, you just have to be shown where it is, as well as bare fisted fighting from the old days.
James
[QUOTE=goju;993668]i checked out michael wongs and william cheungs dvds form the library a few months back and was very impressed with not only their skill but with how thurough the instruction was
what i liked about it specifically was how basic and to the point the applications were[/QUOTE]
I never studied wing chun so not sure if my comment qualifies to the original question. From a non wing chuner I agree 100% with you on the two sifu mentioned on there DVD teaser clips on you tube.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;993665]I wanted to get a thread going on people’s views of who they think puts out the best DVD’s ( they can be instructionals or not) on WC and WHY they believe those DVD’s to be top notch.
This is not about learning from a DVD, though some are better than others for that, nor is it about whether one CAN learn from a DVD, that is another topic.
Its about which DVD’s seem to, in your opinion, show WC how it is “supposed” to be done.[/QUOTE]
Two things.
First. the whole idea of “supposed to be done” is an erroneous way to look at things IMO. This falls into the TMA-authoritative mindset. It’s not about how things are supposed to be done but about how YOU can make things work. And I think that is a very important distinction.
Second, the best way to go about this is not to start with various WCK DVDs but rather to start with what would be a good DVD and then use that standard ascomparison for any WCK DVD. For me, the standard was set by Mario Sperry’s first Vale Tudo series of DVDs. What he did was show you step-by-step what HE did in fighting, explaining why he did what he did, then showed how he trained it, and then showed himself actually using it in fighting. So you saw for yourself that what he taught, what he trained, and what he fought were 1 to 1 to 1.
How many WCK DVDs do that? Most IME simply show the curriculum (forms, drills, dummy) of WCK, and then - unfortunately- often show silly, unrealistic what-they-call-applications and I call fantasy-dream-sequences.
I Liked Mario’s Vale Tudo DVD’s series, I have all 3 volumes of them.
I think the DBMA “mantra” of, “you see it taught, you see it fought” should be the blueprint of ANY MA DVD.
I Have Alan Orr’s stuff and I liked it and I have Sifu Kwok’s DVD series, “mastering Wing Chun” and I don’t like it that much.
Alan’s stuff is good, but there was less practical applications than I though there would be.
Sifu Kwok’s DVD’s suffer from his bad english and because of that he has, at times, a hard time explaining things, though his skill is obvious.
[QUOTE=sihing;993742]David Peterson’s DVD’s (SNT, Chum Kiu and Mok Jong) are excellent. All of them are over 2 1/2 hrs long, lots of details about the how’s and why’s and some applications too. Of course David is from the WSL line.
Gary Lam’s are good as well. Gary in person is just like he is on the DVD’s, plus he gives away allot of gems on his DVD’s, sometimes not sticking to the subject. I really like his early stuff, which was much less scripted and more natural Gary. Gary is probably the best representative of “natural” Wing Chun, as when you see him in person or on the DVD’s you don’t quite see the basics in him or strict fixed postures, as everything he uses he applies the rule of economy of motion, which is just using that much of it that you need.
I picked up Alan Orr’s NHB DVD series, it’s excellent as well, tons of good stuff on those, mixed in with MMA & real life applications and drills. Alan explains their body structure method very well, and has some interesting takes on standing grappling (chin na) that is within the Wing Chun system, you just have to be shown where it is, as well as bare fisted fighting from the old days.
James[/QUOTE]
Thanks James.
Gary has LOTS of DVD’s !
From the clips I have seen of Gary, he uses his size a lot ( not a critique, just an observation) and the clips I have seen of Sifu Peterson ( Trailers for his DVD’s) all look pretty good in terms of instruction.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;993832]I Liked Mario’s Vale Tudo DVD’s series, I have all 3 volumes of them.
I think the DBMA “mantra” of, “you see it taught, you see it fought” should be the blueprint of ANY MA DVD.
[/QUOTE]
I think the mantra should be “if you don’t see it fought, then it isn’t taught”.
I Have Alan Orr’s stuff and I liked it and I have Sifu Kwok’s DVD series, “mastering Wing Chun” and I don’t like it that much.
Alan’s stuff is good, but there was less practical applications than I though there would be.
Sifu Kwok’s DVD’s suffer from his bad english and because of that he has, at times, a hard time explaining things, though his skill is obvious.
You can’t see skill unless you see fighting. So, you can’t know if someone has skill without seeing them fight.
Many people are very good at performing the curriculum of WCK (forms, drills, etc.). To me, however, this isn’t skill – skill in any martial art is in fighting (being able to use that art’s tools, i.e., movements, actions, tactics, etc., in fighting).
Almost all the WCK DVDs out there are IMO superficial, and provide more poor (and wrong) information than good. So, generally, I think they are better avoided.
As I see it, there is a core curriculum of WCK which comprises those things you NEED to put it together for yourself. Now, no one can put it together for you – you must work it out for yourself (you learn to box by boxing). And this presents two main problems with WCK DVDs. The first is that a DVD can’t help you work it out for yourself. The second is that almost all the people who produce WCK DVDs don’t have-- and certainly don’t present – the core curriculum. And, without all the NECESSARY pieces it will be extremely difficult for anyone to put it together.
From my perspective, the critical thing is the process of putting it together. You can’t get that from a DVD.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;993842]Blah blah blah… The second is that almost all the people who produce WCK DVDs don’t have-- and certainly don’t present – the core curriculum. And, without all the NECESSARY pieces it will be extremely difficult for anyone to put it together. [/QUOTE]
Well, since you obviously are an authority on the subject on who’s got what, name the ones that DO ‘have it’ in your expert opinion.
Since you think most don’t, it should be a short list, so won’t take you long. No side stepping or backtracking, no ‘well these are the ones that don’t have it…’. If you have such a strong certainty on who has what, lets hear who you think DOES have it.
While you’re at it, why not list the things they have that ‘almost all’ the others are missing
We’ll see if you have balls enough to do it, or are you just full of BS all the time… 
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;993837]Thanks James.
Gary has LOTS of DVD’s !
From the clips I have seen of Gary, he uses his size a lot ( not a critique, just an observation) and the clips I have seen of Sifu Peterson ( Trailers for his DVD’s) all look pretty good in terms of instruction.[/QUOTE]
Gary for sure uses his size to his advantage. That advantage is that he is always sitting in his stance rooted, his weight helps him do that. But when you train with him, there is no strength or tension invovled, he’s very soft and lets you try to hit it at will, sometimes he gets touched but that is the moment he has you in his grasps. He has amazing control, as when I first chi sau’d with him, he threw me around a bit and control my attacks, but when I saw him deal with other senior students his intensity was much higher, he threw them around like rag dolls. It’s hard to pick up those sublties on DVD.
I like David’s DVD’s because it gives me the details that I need to know as a teacher and for personal knowledge. He’s a teacher by profession, and he speaks chinese language very proficently so he was able to communicate with WSL on that personal level, which gives us all a unique prospective as well.
James
of all the ones i have seen, i like the Duncan Leung series.
however, everyone has their own ‘way’ of wing chun; so i found that watching DVDs and picking up attributes can sometimes be detrimental
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;994010]Well, since you obviously are an authority on the subject on who’s got what, name the ones that DO ‘have it’ in your expert opinion.
Since you think most don’t, it should be a short list, so won’t take you long. No side stepping or backtracking, no ‘well these are the ones that don’t have it…’. If you have such a strong certainty on who has what, lets hear who you think DOES have it.
While you’re at it, why not list the things they have that ‘almost all’ the others are missing
We’ll see if you have balls enough to do it, or are you just full of BS all the time… ;)[/QUOTE]
As I said, “Almost all the WCK DVDs out there are IMO superficial, and provide more poor (and wrong) information than good. So, generally, I think they are better avoided.”
None, IMO, present the entire core curriculum of WCK, although some present parts of it. Alan, for example, does a good job of presenting an introduction to “body structure”. I liked parts of a Boztepe tape that I saw (can’t remember the name of it) as it showed him getting in, controlling the opponent, and hitting with elbows. Likewise, I think Gary Lam’s DVDs, particularly those parts pertaining to controlling aspects, have some useful info.
FWIW, Robert and I once spent an entire weekend just reviewing various tapes and DVDs, many commercial and some private, and it was one of the most depressing weekends of my life!
I haven’t seen any Wing Chun DVDs that made me jump for joy. However, I liked Augustine Fong’s DVDs stuck out. I like the first DVD of Cheung’s stuff where he sort of gives the overview of his system. Allen Orr’s stuff has gotten good reviews by people, but I was not in love with what I saw. Wing Chun DVDs are hit and miss to some extent. If you have a goal of some certain thing that you are looking for, you might get closer to what you want from a DVD.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;994152]As I said, “Almost all the WCK DVDs out there are IMO superficial, and provide more poor (and wrong) information than good. So, generally, I think they are better avoided.”
None, IMO, present the entire core curriculum of WCK, although some present parts of it. Alan, for example, does a good job of presenting an introduction to “body structure”. I liked parts of a Boztepe tape that I saw (can’t remember the name of it) as it showed him getting in, controlling the opponent, and hitting with elbows. Likewise, I think Gary Lam’s DVDs, particularly those parts pertaining to controlling aspects, have some useful info.
FWIW, Robert and I once spent an entire weekend just reviewing various tapes and DVDs, many commercial and some private, and it was one of the most depressing weekends of my life![/QUOTE]
Yeah, that’s great. But you totally avoided the question. I didn’t think you could/would do it. So, you were just talking sh!t without the balls to go on with the follow thru of naming them.
BTW, this is what I quoted you saying “The second is that almost all the people who produce WCK DVDs don’t have-- and certainly don’t present – the core curriculum. And, without all the NECESSARY pieces it will be extremely difficult for anyone to put it together”
To add to the thread: I have only seen a few instructional dvds on WC. While I don’t really care for learning anything from a video, I did enjoy watching Master Wong’s videos on Youtube. That guy cracks me up.
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;994169]Yeah, that’s great. But you totally avoided the question. I didn’t think you could/would do it. So, you were just talking sh!t without the balls to go on with the follow thru of naming them.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but I thought your question was for me to name some that I thought had useful info. Didn’t I do that?
BTW, this is what I quoted you saying “The second is that almost all the people who produce WCK DVDs don’t have-- and certainly don’t present – the core curriculum. And, without all the NECESSARY pieces it will be extremely difficult for anyone to put it together”
The core curriculum of WCK begins with the faat, the method. In fact, that’s the most critical element of the curriculum. Then there are the fundamental skills of WCK, what you need to be able to do to implement the method. Body structure, for example, is the first of the fundamentals. Hitting with body structure the next. I could go on but each builds on the preceding one (there is a natural progression) and if you don’t have 1or 2, it won’t help to talk about 3 and up. Then you need the tactics, various ways of using the skills. That’s the basic material in the core curriculum.
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;994170]To add to the thread: I have only seen a few instructional dvds on WC. While I don’t really care for learning anything from a video, I did enjoy watching Master Wong’s videos on Youtube. That guy cracks me up.[/QUOTE]
I watched some of his videos. They are available on NetFlix. They are decent. If nothing else he is funny as you point out.
I agree. Learning from videos is a bad approach although, I know a few people who have essentially garage trained from tapes and gotten help from experts when possible and won quite a few mma fights.