Count
E
Any idea on the seminar cost? That info wasn’t listed. (yeah, I should email the guy…but this is easier ;))
Mike Sigman has written that Painter told him that he had made up alot of that system himself.
Waiden
I’m working on that info for you.
Mojo, I doubt it. Not that I doubt another teacher would say something like that but I doubt any one person could make up a system like that. I also doubt, if he had made something up he would tell someone about it. He credits his teacher Li. It is not my system of bagua but I have seen his system and the core principles of bagua that Dr. Painter demonstrates are clear and powerful. His seminars seem to make it easy for even beginners to grasp. I think it would be worth anyones while to attend even if it is not your style.
Count
E
Here ya go Waiden
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>The seminar cost is $175 for both days, $90 for individual days, $200 for both days at the door.
seminar fees must be postmarked by July 8th to get the $175 rate.
[/quote]
Count
E
I appreciate it, Count. Dr. Painter taught a seminar at our school some years ago, and from what I’ve heard he shares some great material. Are you planning on attending? Any other SoCal KFO guys going?
Waiden
I will be going to the next one he has planned and possibly getting some hands on with him sooner. Unfortunately or fortunately for me the weekend of july 21-22 is also the weekend Master Tsou is doing the “64 palms of yin style” workshop in San Diego. See our site Chi Kung International in the calendar section if you are interested in that one.
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Count
E
I get an http 404 error when clicking on the enter button on entry page from “Chi Kung International”. The following page can not be found
http://chikungintl.com/chikunginternational.com/index.html
Guandi
>The seminar cost is $175 for both days, $90 for
>individual days, $200 for both days at the door.
>seminar fees must be postmarked by July 8th to
>get the $175 rate.
are these typical prices in the US?
Guandi
Guandi
Sorry,
that page should send you right in anyway. I fixed the link. The cost is somewhat average for that kind of intensives here. Ususally they are 2 full days and lunch each day. You work up a pretty good appatite at them. Jasons is the same, but you can check out the site if you haven’t already.
Count
thanks for the information, count.
Guandi
Mojo:
You gotta remember Mike Sigman made up most of his stuff himself, too :). He’s been corrected in his statements by Chen Xiaowang, among others. The thing I will say about Painter is that he’s willing to demonstrate his stuff. Sigman will too, but under much more “controlled” circumstances–his control.
Personally, I don’t think Painter’s historical claims about his art are valid, but he does seem to be able to execute his techniques. A lot of people jump on Painter because of his past background as a stage magician and entertainer, automatically equating that with a penchant for fraud. I also think his habit of making himself a “Captain” in his self-created American Rangers organization, or dressing up in an Israeli-army style uniform simply because one of his students has taught over there, doesn’t do much to add to his credibility. Then again, there’s an awful lot of us who dress up in silk pyjamas, something that no traditional Chinese martial artist of yore ever wore.
I’ve never heard a bad word about the quality of Painter’s seminars. I’d go myself if I were in Cali then.
Well, its not like I have to speak for Dr. Painter cause he can easily and happily demonstrate his ability to anyone…all you have to do his have the balls to ask…and that there disqualifies a lot of people.
Dr. Painter was indeed taught by Mr. Li, LongDao(Frank) I have seen the letter given to Shifu Painter written by Mr. Li saying he has indeed learned this system, some of the Chinese characters where very old and all but extremely well versed Chinese scholars could accurately translate them.
His system of Baguazhang is DEEPLY rooted in the core and essential concepts of the YiJing and Daoist cosmology.
He can use just about any weapon and use it as if he was using unarmed techniques. He would regularly and with little effort defeat champion Chinese swordsmen from tournaments all over.
Shifu Painter with Adam Hsu put together almost all the Chinese sparring and forms competition rules and developed a Chinese “soft/safe” sword of fencing, not to mention fencing George Xu with real “slice your ass up and bleed you dry” sharp swords.
Shifu Painter was also a real life bodyguard to many celebrities and the rich social lites.
He does not only have one student in Israel, but does indeed teach members of the Israel army.
Was a professional stunt man and magician which is pretty cool I think.
Shifu Painter set up an institution to teach law enforcement people how to defend themselves cause if you think most cops aren’t nothing more then donut stuffed cubs who’s training included effective method of detaining and arresting people you need your head examined.
Shifu Painter is a fully licensed Natorpathic/Wholistic Doctor.
Shifu Painter doesn’t not demonstrate with “here you do this, I’ll do this” nonsense, he say come at me with whatever you want and he’ll use the very same technique whether you kick him, grab him, punch him, whatever and put you on your butt as hard or as soft as he wants.
Shifu Painter has said he has looked hard into other methods of Baguazhang and can easily make whatever they do work right in his system of Baguazhang no problem … hell I do that myself. Baguazhang is a living and adapting system if you don’t so that your missing out.
Shifu Painter is about one of the most physical flexible and strong teachers/stylists in this country.
So I’ve said my piece about Shifu Painter and why I’m a dedicated student of his and a promoter of his methods, don’t believe me? Go see him your damn self…what could be more simple? 
-Kevin
The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.
Kevin
That was an excellent defence of your instructor. Good work.
I was quite suprised when I read what Sigman wrote. Didn’t know what to believe.
Thanks to all for the information.
Dear Count:
The 64 palms of Yin Style, I am assuming is sometime called (this is the toughest part of bagua, the dam(n) translations) call the nei shou zhang or 64 internal palm. That, along with xiao kai men, is so critical as the foundational training in our style.
Not taking away from Dr. Painter’s seminar, but the seminar given by Master Tsou would be a real gem for those wishing to get into the basic foundational training. This is the stuff that long term training is made of. Without this, advanced forms mean very little.
The 64 palms, I believe, also contain a number of the 8 mother palms and anyone wishing to see what GM Liu taught as part of his Yin style bagua should not miss this seminar. I am certain it will be a great one!
Hi RAF
I agree, I have been looking forward to this for months. Jason will explian exactly how the 64 palms works. I worked on this form already and now I think I will be able to really make it work. But beginners would get a great deal form this too. Jason says if you only have one or two and know how to make it work it would be enough.
Still on the road RAF?
Count
_ˇ
Hello Count:
I’ve been home for about the last 3 weeks or so. Currently teaching summer school from about 5:00 pm to 11:00 pm. This gives me a lot of time to workout in the mornings. A lot of my training schedule involves the weighted exercises of bagua and the nei shou zhang (I’ll call 64 moving)on one day and xiao baji/ da qiang on another. Been trying to play around with the bagua sword but the foot and hand movements are pretty rough. I finished the baji sword which we practice on Sundays and taijiquan. Wednesdays, Saturday I go to formal classes. When the semester changes, I’ll go a bit differently. We are also getting ready to go to a Baltimore Tournament, July 25, 26 or so.
In between I sneak up to Cleveland for Dian Xin (Dim Sum not Dim Mak, making a bad joke. Dim Sum is actually a lot more fun. We have a thriving Chinese community in Cleveland and I am only 25 miles away). I hope you can make here and we can meet sometime and compare notes. I have a small clip of GM Liu playing the deerhorn knives. We use it on our xiao kai men tape and I think you would like to see it. Its a helluva tease and I cannot get Yang Laoshi to show me the entire footage.
Also, on Master Su’s tapes, there is great footage of GM Liu playing, I believe, baji Lei Huan.
Good luck on your seminar, it really sounds fantastic
man,
What I would give to see that. I’ve been working hard on fixing up Ying Shao and I just picked up some deerhorns. Jason says I don’t look mean enough. He used a great expression in Chinese I can’t remember at the moment but I think it changed in English to “look meaner” He heh heh, I think I know what he meant. Anyway, He is trying to encourage us to come to the tournament in the fall and visit you guys. If I can swing it I definatly will.
Count
_ˇ
>not to mention fencing George Xu with >real “slice your ass up and bleed you dry” sharp
>swords.
..and what was the outcome?
Guandi
The 64 palms form to me is just nuts..thats a lot of palm work wouldn’t mind learning it but I’d have to put aside some serious time to do so. Funny that between 2 system of Bagua, one I learned and the other I’m learning, the 64 palm form in non existent in each.
My first system concentrated on singular postures to represent the 8 major Gua in animal shapes which had what is called the 8 mother changes which are methods of changing that where common to all the 8 mother shapes and then there was 8 changes solely belonging to the 8 mother shapes individually, no long forms, just changes do over and over and over again.
Much the same with the Jiulong system (Shifu John Painter) which Have Palm(body) shapes which are directly influenced by the 8 major Gua (Heaven, Fire, Lake, etc.) but not animal shapes. Each Palm/Body shape of the Jiulong system has a Yang, Yin and Taiji(equal represented) shape which is expressed through out the entire body. Jiulong system is a system very rooted in the Wuji idea, where the sub-concious picks the energy you will move with and how you will move with it, there are no set forms, and flow in a very natural way from one energy (maybe Thunder) into another energy (maybe Water) which could be considered the palm change.
Now their is something called the double palm change which in the Jiuong system is represented by showing say, Mountain through one arm and Wind in another, combining these both would create a whole new energy, and by combing and moving with all the shapes in different variations you express elements of the YiJing as a total physical practice, also each palm of the Jiulong system has its own personality and feelings they invoke and holding and changing into and between different postures can cause a profund neurological effect, for those of you that have wondered why EVERY shamanic culture has used a method of circle walking to induce altered states of conciousness..I know now why.
So in that why the Jiulong system could indeed have a form of the 64 palm changes, but also remember you could hold thunder’s yang shape but fire’s YIN shape which would create something totally different from holding thunder’s yang and fire yang…
So in essence its like the 8x8=64 with the Yang postures alone and 8x8=64 with the yin postures alone and 64x64 with using and experiencing all of Jiulong possible energy combinations… which would be 4096 palm energies… yikes.. I might just want to learn the yin 64 palm form..sounds easier…
-Kevin
The circle will always be, but you alone decides when it starts and where it ends.