ATTN: Peeps who've spent time in China

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
21

“bone up on your cantonese. this is the new name for canton”
the school offers free Mandarin lessons, would this be pretty useless in Guangzhou?

while mandarin (putonghua–“the common language”) is the national language, its like speaking english in quebec. even chengdu uses more than a fair share of sichuan hua (sichuanese) and i’m told shanghai is the same way. local dialects are used everywhere, but you can get around it with mandarin. depends how widespread the dialect is. like in hong kong you’ll be using cantonese and since guangdong province (home of guangzhou) is the home of cantonese (guangdong hua) you’re going to run up against a dual language system. at least the writing is the same. here in tibet, the local dialect is actually a different language (but i can still get around in mandarin). the point is, the locals like when you can speak the local language. it’ll be a great help with bargaining.
as a guideline, if you speak english in lhasa, you get charged 200 yuan. if you speak mandarin, you get charged 30 yuan. if you speak tibetan, i’m sure you could get it even less.

other notes of caution: people spit EVERYWHERE. they’ll spit on the floor in your classroom if you don’t make a rule. they spit in the street (even “respectable” ladies). they spit on the bus (not out the window–on the floor). just be ready. at least they don’t spit on people.
–there is no such thing as a line up/queue. you push to the front and wave your money. this goes for train/bus stations, restaurants, and sometimes stores. be sure you know what you want and push to the front. it isn’t rude, just different.

as for beautiful cities, i’d probably say kunming is the most famous for its beauty. my friend hates chengdu but loves kunming. it gets a fair bit of sun and is in the south so its warm enough. even in the winter its still spring-like. don’t know about training opportunities, but yunnan (the province) is home to a number of minority groups that are of interest. also, kunming, if memory serves, is close to the southern border of china making out of country trips relatively easy. (thailand is really close, as would be burma (now called myanmar), and i think vietnam. check a map.

-wang si zhong

22

Thanks for all the long posts everyone.
Wnag, keep it up, the more info the better.
Gene, good info about connections, rather than just walking into a MA school I think I’ll wait until I get a guanxi to get in somewhere.
Stumble fist, you’ve scared the crap out of me now. I don’t know if you meant to do that, but thanks for loking up that info on English First. I haven’t given them any money yet so I think a little more research is in order.

Any and all information is GREATLY APPRECIATED, keep it coming.

23

i’m not going to argue the language issue. you now have enough info to go on in that regard.

its true that contracts are not always honored, but i’ve never had problems in that regard. i’ve never been anywhere that hasnt been more than accomodating. i finally got my passport back after two months of waiting for a residence permit, but that’s just administration stuff and not any ill will on the part of my school.

don’t be afraid. but don’t be arrogant. the more respectful and humble you are, the better you will do. remember, you’re the learner now. none of this “this isn’t the way we do it at home” business or they’ll be happy to help you get back home (or at least wish you were). guanxi is a big issue like gene said, but you can develop your own guanxi by being pleasant, helpful, and undemanding.

that’s not the same as letting people take advantage of you.

be aware though,that there is no such thing as a free lunch. your students or their families will give you things and invite you places. sometimes it is to thank you for your teaching…other times it is so that you will be obligated to teach their whole family the king’s english (or something of the sort).
people will meet you once and want to be your best friend–be selective. they can be very, umm, persuasive.
“can i have your phone number?” “can we be friends?” “why can’t i come, too? i’m your friend too right?” “can you introduce me to some western women?”
you might hear these ACTUAL questions on your first or second time meeting someone. they’re serious.

sorry, this has nothing to do with kung fu. just some typical cross-cultural stuff that i would hope your organization would train you in. pretty basic stuff really. if your org. isn’t providing you with this information, shop around.

wang si zhong

24

I just went and checked out that whole board that Stumblefist posted a link to above.

Man, its not very inspiring, in fact, from those posts about English First and most of the others being about how you can’t live on 2000RMB a month and how China is generally quite an unpleasant place to live I don’t even know if I want to go anymore:(

Although on the other hand I think if I want to go, I should go and find out for myself how difficult it is, then I can say that i’ve done it and at least found out for myself.

Dude, what a head fu(k.

25

Thanks Stumblefist, for the contacts in China.

I’m going to be phoning English First for some more specific details of the scheme later.

Questions like: do I have to pay for the air ticket up front?
what is the medical insurance scheme?
how is the accomodation sorted out? how many people to a house? does it have running water/electric/a kitchen etc?
how do the wages get paid?

Can you think of any more?

Wages are 2000 RMB, is that enough? Bearing in mind that your accomodation is free.

The reason I give them money is for training in TEFL, as I have no experience or qualifications in this field. Its about £150, plus a training fee of £200 (I think) which you get back.

26

alright stumblefist, you know best.
enjoy your trip scotty1

wang si zhong

27

Hey now Wang, don’t stop giving me advice because Stumblefist disagrees with you!!

This is the internet, I don’t know who I can, or if I can, trust anyone, so I need lots of different views to compare.

C’mon man, help me out… :slight_smile:

28

Re: Another Universe

Originally posted by Stumblefist
[B]", is that all those LARGE companies are usually swine.
Now learn to eat bitter and you can have a real good time.
i’ll email you some personal peeps i know who are absolutely honest and reliable, with honest (err… in the chinese sense ) and reliable schools.
… lying cheating school administration is an oxymoron. If you are a wimp. they will walk all over you. If you got solid eyes, don’t let a detail go by complain, complain, then chinese businessmen will sit up and bark.
Why? Because they need you 10,000 times more than you need them. You just don’t know that.
And they know when you don’t know it.
And they know when you do know it.
The law here is the law you assert. You push or you get pushed. If they can walk on you they will. If you complain they “save face” and nothing happened and they bark for you.
Sorry Wang but China’s a place for smarts and that phoney respect will get you nowhere and your advice will string someone out to dry.
No!! You develop your own guanxi by trading favors and making the right friends. never make any assumptions and always assert yourself and forsee every loophole.
Make your own appendix to ANY contract, and if they don’t like it …dump them. Never sign their own (blank) contract.

  • open your eyes. [/B]

man! sounds like battered child syndrome!

29

jonguo

Kunming is mighty nice

Chengdu has great eats

Xi’an has friendly folks

for whatever my opinion may (or may not) be worth

if you’re at a University, you will have lots of opportunities to get to know students. Some waiguoren become paranoid and never interact with their students because “you won’t get something from me for free you *******s!! my time and the wonderful sound of my voice are like gold! gold I tell you!!!”

if you meet some students who are local to the area, and maybe sporty-types, they may be able to get you an introduction to some local teachers. and yes, you should be humble and deferential to any teachers you get the chance to study under.

don’t over-plan. ride the changes

30

Well, I just found out that EF schools are franchised and a lot depends on the local owners.

Apparently the general feel amongst teachers of EFL is that EF are a reasonable organisation, even though what they pay their teachers is a small fraction of what they charge their students.

Keep it coming everyone, thanks for the thoughts Chinghei!:slight_smile:

31

scotty1

Are you in contact with any mainland masters right now? They might be able to set you up with a guanxi. Surely everyone know someone in Beijing. If you can get someone to write you a letter of recommendation, that will help a lot with opening doors to a good school.

32

Originally posted by scotty1
[B]Well, I just found out that EF schools are franchised and a lot depends on the local owners.

Apparently the general feel amongst teachers of EFL is that EF are a reasonable organisation, even though what they pay their teachers is a small fraction of what they charge their students.

Keep it coming everyone, thanks for the thoughts Chinghei!:slight_smile: [/B]

:smiley:

EF is a giant company. a possible benefit to you might be that if they have schools all over China, you could transfer to another school if your first assignment doesn’t work out for some reason.

33

Re: To the victor the spoils!!!

Originally posted by Stumblefist
[B]"That is battered China syndrome. But if you don’t recognize that you have to be assertive in business in China then you have had very limited experience.
China works on a system of corruption. No company here is exempt from that. no matter where you are and who you are taking to, You might sometimes be disappointed to find out that the friendship was just business (to learn english) keep in mind that simply “talking in English” is a commodity and decide from there what to give people and what to trade it for (and if you are smart you can get just about anything you need by talking for it) and how to develop your friendships.
…Some people are comfortable to put up with being abused rather than to assert themselves.

No chance… [/B]

you see chief, this is what I was refering to. some folks react to challenging circumstances by building their own little cocoon of self-centeredness and suspicion.

be careful and be aware, but don’t let bitter, paranoid, insecure people ruin your experience before you even begin. keep your eyes and your heart open and you’ll be alright.

34

baichi

Originally posted by Stumblefist
[B]"
Nuts! What bitterness? You “don’t-want-to-see-no-evil” people are a little bit like Marie Antoiinette or ostriches. I work hard and play hard and enjoy every bit of it. "

some people enjoy their bitterness

“You see both the good and the bad: that’s reality. It makes your life strong and better.
Some people don’t want to see “bad”. Nothing can be done.
One man’s heaven is another man’s blindness.”

your homemade fortune cookies suck, obi-wan.

got anymore empty platitudes?

“…
I’ve helped dozens of people land and adjust to their contracts and placed several scores in schools as well as martial arts training camps.
..
Just what have you done?”

yes, I’m sure that you are a beacon of light for all the ignorant masses you save…

typical insurance salesman. "Hello sir, how are you today? Good? NO! YOU ARE NOT GOOD! Sir if you had the benefit of knowing what I know, you would spend your every waking moment in terror! No sir, you are not good. Nor shall you ever be until you procure for yourself the security and peace of mind that can only come from 'Iloveme insurance, co. inc. If you want to ignore the daily horrors that await you, well sir, be my guest. But if you want real security and assurance for yourself and your loved ones there is only one choice, 'Iloveme insurance. "

this guy is playing upon the insecurity of newcomers to inflate his own ego, and it ain’t pretty.

"…
Here are your opnions from (no) deep exerience…

"Kunming is mighty nice

Chengdu has great eats

Xi’an has friendly folks"

Oh really informative, like NOT. That applies to all cities… sounds like a 2 day tourist. How about some reports on the living conditions, what eats and where, western or chinese, climate, upscale, western orientation, modernization, toughness of the local FA or PSB?"

Oh, I like this part. this is where we see who can pee the most on the same tree.

I would never compare my brief years to your infinite wisdom.

I know you were discovered by mao in a basket floating down the Yangtze, and no one has as intimate an understanding of the country, its people, or its institutions as you do. so all must fall at your feet and beg for guidance…

[/B]

transparent.

35

Re: Mayday

Originally posted by Stumblefist
[B]
Now you haven’t been watching too much of CCTV-4 have you?
It’s a good study of propaganda techniques.
…
One reason you make sure you get a vcd player in your accomodation.: you can rent movies for about 12 cents US, usually copies of movies made about one day before they hit the theatres. :slight_smile: (Hey, don’t blame me. it’s the only game in town, there is no such thing as legal rental.)
Of course you may prefer to watch any of the CCTV channels number 1 to 12, on cable TV. Each one has the Zhang Ze Min Comedy hour every day (aka 6 o’clock news).

[/B]

good lord! the tv schedule! I…I never imagine the depth of the insight.

take as gospel anything this prophet says!

36

Dudes! :smiley:

Getting a little off topic here… Why can’t you just ignore each other, that way I get three different viewpoints rather than 5 pages of insults!! :smiley:

Seriously, thanks to EVERYONE who’s responded, its is very much appreciated.:slight_smile:

Now, some thoughts:

GENE: Unfortuantely there are no EF schools in Beijing, and I have no mainland contacts. Well, apart from Stumblefist…
But thankyou for the info anyway, I’m sure I will be seeing Beijing before I leave China.

STUMBLEFIST: Thanks VERY MUCH for the offers of contacts and placements in schools. I would not at this moment say yes or no to your generous offer as I still have a lot of discussion and research with my girlfriend (who is coming too!) to do yet. But it has been noted as a serious option.

The thought which is in my head about EF is that they are the largest private school org. in the world, and you can’t get to that position by completly screwing every teacher that works for you.

The money that I give them (£150) is for a one month course with a TEFL certificate at the end of it (taken in England, may be a Trinity TESOL) with a possible training charge of £200, which is repaid upon completion of contract. The only money which I give them that they keep is the £150 for the TEFL, which is fairly cheap I believe, esp. if it is a Trinity College TESOL.

Sorry if I gave the impression that is was otherwise.

Here is something else dodgy as well…
Did you see another post on Daves Cafe slating EF in Harbin?
So that’s one is Tinajin, one in Harbin, both saying working for EF was complete hell on earth. They are both written by the same guy, Shaun Rogers. Doesn’t that seem slightly strange to you, why would he stay with EF if his experiences were that bad?
Unless he transferred in the hope of it being better. But he doesn’t mention that, nor does he mention in his posts the fact that he has worked for EF before. Maybe he is working for another company, surely he wouldn’t be so stupid as to sign with the same name twice?

Won’t the kungfu around Zhengzhou will be Shaolin style and PRC Wushu, as David pointed out?

Whereabouts are you in China Stumblefist? Perhaps we could meet for a Tsingtao?

Chinghei - I appreciate your contributions, are you in China also?

37

Dude, how long are you staying out there?

Fighting Taiji, sounds cool.

Whats the weather like around there?

I hit a real low patch yesterday about the EF thing. But now I have it in perspective, and I think with anything there’s going to be some risk, I may just go for it. There are a lot of benefits to going with them (ie. free stuff), but I am not 100% yet at all. I still have a LOT of questions to ask them.

The thing which I keep thinking is that - it’s only 6 months. It’ll be a hell of an experience either way, and surely if it’s that bad I can walk out, although I would stand to lose some money.

They have a site, www.englishfirst.com, but most of my info is from a pack that they sent me.

But don’t think I’m not thinking about your offer, because I am.
My gf doesn’t even know about that yet, so it needs some serious discussion.

Thanks for the research on EF offer too, PLEASE man don’t forget or something, you guys in China are the best source of info for me.

My private mail is katenscott@hotmail.com, but its disallowed at work and that’s mainly where I’m on the net. So if this thread drops, start a new thread or something yeah? Word on the street in China about EF would be sooooo good. :slight_smile:

Cheers Captain, I’ll buy you a beer.

You’re teaching yourself over there, right? How long have you been out there, how long you going to stay etc?

38

Re: Bankruptcy

Originally posted by Stumblefist
[B]“baichi”
It means Stumblefist.

one man’s dolt is another man’s idiot.
One man’s nightmare is another man’s utopia.
One man’s savior is another man’s demon.

ping yongde

Chinglish you’ve run out of your reserve. You’ve got nothing left but the personal attack. You’ve lost the argument.

hahahahha
if you say so, o great one.

It was interesting sparring with you

[/B]

‘sparring’? hahahaha ok.

transparent

39

Originally posted by scotty1
[B]Dudes! :smiley:

Getting a little off topic here… Why can’t you just ignore each other, that way I get three different viewpoints rather than 5 pages of insults!! :smiley:

Chinghei - I appreciate your contributions, are you in China also? [/B]

where’s the fun in that?

I’m not in China now. It was some years ago that I lived there fulltime. Although I do travel there on business from time to time.

40

Where did you live Chingei? What was the kungfu like in your area?

Oh yeah, do the Chinese call it all ‘wushu’ or do they differentiate between ‘wushu’ and ‘gongfu’?