At the dojo I go to Ive been taking Brazilian JuJitsu for about 3-4 months and the dojo may start offering Wing Chun around the beginning of next year, i was wondering if the two arts transitioned very well, or worked fairly well with each other. Thanx for your time.
" Who’s the baddest mofo in this joint?..SHONUFF!!!
Na even tho I guess you COULD MAKE it work, W/C dosnt benefit much if you dont dedicate some serious time and practice to it. I would never do W/C at the same time while doing another art.
Plus, 3-4 months? Come on now, you havnt even developed much in BJJ as it is because 3-4 months is nothing, stick to your Jujitsu and try actually LEARNING it. Maybe (yes they MAY sound crazey) try doing it for a few years! Gain a real understanding of the art. Practice it! Use it to spar/grapple lots of people! Dont just hop to another art only because its available. These days everyone is “crosstraining” and all we have are a bunch of jack of all trades and masters of none. It seems to me like your trying to put the horse before the cart. When thinking about doing two arts always remember: when you chase two rabbits, they both get away.
Always seeking to learn,
Kong Jianshen
Humble disciple of the ancient Boxing Arts
I disagree. I think learning some type of standup striking training while learning your jiu-jitsu is a great idea. The question is time!! Are you going to have to give up BJJ classes to do wing chun?? If so then it might be a bad idea.
Really though, maybe ask jojitsu27 on the main board. He is a wing chun instructor and does Jiu-jitsu.
No i wont have to give up BJJ to start Wing Chun, i go to BJJ like 2 or 3 times a day so we do quite a bit, ill have to cut down to 1 or 2 times a day if i do it. We learn a fair amount of stand-up fighting in my BJJ class because my instructor is a professional fighter and he likes to teach us and prepare us the way he prepares for his fights.
" Who’s the baddest mofo in this joint?..SHONUFF!!!
Yes it is compatible, but…
First off, i think the two arts are very compatible. The close range sensitivity of wing chun will greatly facilitate your grappling ability…also IMO, close range trapping is a GREAT transition to takedowns and groundfighting.
But one thing…you mentioned that your "dojo"where you had been studying Bjj may start offering wing chun soon. Do you study at a karate dojo where they started offering Bjj? And now they are trying incorporate wing chun? If so, in all honesty I don’t think it would be a good idea to try to find quality instruction in wing chun. The instructors in many MA schools sometimes try incorporating many arts that they are really not qualified to teach properly into their curriculum. Understand that I’m not trying to badmouth your school. I’m not saying that this is definitely the case for your school. Just to give you a little warning. But in any case, if quality instruction in Bjj and wing chun are available to you, i say go for it!
There is only one martial art.
It seems to me that all the people who dont practice W/C or have spent any amount of YEARS (no, not months) are almost telling you “sure! the more arts you do the better!”. They are not being very helpful.
Yes everyone should know what to do when brought to the ground BUT studying a new style on it might be a bit much. Atleast for now! A decent W/C man can fight stand up and take you on the ground, but a GREAT W/C man will NOT let you bring him to the ground.
Lets look at the possibly the best W/C fighter in modern times. Wong Shung Leung. Do you think he was the best because HE crosstrained in Jujitsu, Choy Lay Fut, Monkey style, etc etc. Come on people. If your going to give your opinion on W/C atleast have a background based on years with it. Can you go down two streets at once? No. Studying two styles at once will hinder your ability to be good at either!
What you COULD do if you had to have it that way is do one for a cetain amount of years then when you feel comfortable start training in the other. How are you going to start a different style when your not even capable in the one your doing now? Again would you put the cart before the horse? I wonder if the people that are telling you to “go for it” have any common sense.
Yes it hard to say no when you see a “cool” style become available. But you should stay on the path you orginaly picked. There is alot more to what your doing (BJJ) then you could imagine. And the same go’s for any art. Alot of the important things you only see after years of studying!
If crosstraining is your deal W/C will leave a bad taste in your mouth. With the exception of Bruce Lee alot of the better people who did W/C didnt crosstrain very much. They were masters of W/C and thats it. Yes I know alot of you have seen Yip Man doing the sword form in Enter the Dragon and think “wow even Yip Man did other arts!” No folks. Not even close. Even Bruce’s “new” style (JF JKD) was in its core essentially modified W/C. He studied it and NO other art before he began his crosstraining!
The secret to being a good fighter is applying what you know and applying it realsticly. You have a base in BJJ now, instead of jumping on the first art that becomes available (like most ignorant people would) make your BJJ work! Go spar! Go learn how to take strikers down. Grapple with wrestlers, boxers, kung fu men, anyone you can get your hands on. KNOW your art, its limitations and its strengths. Become one with your art! Make it a part of you! This is how great martial artists are made; not by changing what they do or adding arts every 3 months.
When you over sharpen a knife, it loses it’s ability to keep an edge. Stay with what your doing and stay on the right track and dont let other people change your mind. I posted again because doing both would be a bad decision on your part. From years of experince doing W/C I can tell you my art is not an easy one to make work. It takes years of practicing it and only it to cultivate the proper skill. And if you think you can be a beginner and do it and another art succesfully at once you are very mistaken. Dont be a jack of all trades and a master of none. I suggest you heed my advice. Or you can listen to everyone elses, the choice is yours.
Always seeking to learn,
Kong Jianshen
Humble disciple of the ancient Boxing Arts
Kong Jianshen,
With all due respect, you strike me as a person who has never seriously crosstrained. You speak so blatantly from a one sided opinion. I spent the better part of my younger years training in one art but I eventually became a “mixed martial arts” crosstrainer. I’ve been on both sides of the argument through my life and although I see certain validity in both sides, I generally stand in favor of crosstraining. I find it particularly idiotic that many Gung fu practitioners shun crosstraining and call crosstrainers “jack of all trades but master of none” when Gung fu is generally extremely multi-faceted. Many styles of Gung fu contain such a wide variety of influence and techniques. Hung Ga is a mixture of Tiger and Crane styles. Wing Chun is a synthesis of Taoist and Buddhist martial arts. And most styles of Gung fu cover long range fighting, close range punching, trapping, throwing, and even some groundfighting as well all in ONE ART. That is, by definition, crosstraining. I’ve never heard any Gung fu traditionalist say, “Don’t do Shaolin Gung fu! They try to teach you long range kicking, close range fighting, throwing and chin na all together! You’ll be a jack of all trades but a master of none!” Every style of Gung fu is a synthesis of many different techniques and ranges. When traditionalists talk about Northern Shaolin, they call this a well rounded and deep art. But when you talk about Muay thai, boxing and Bjj then all of a sudden it is being a “jack of all trades but a master of none”. Why is it so different? Is it just because crosstrainers haven’t institutionalized their methods under one name? I find it puzzling.
I will, however, bow to your observation and forewarning that wing chun is not an easy art to learn to use effectively, especially when you have other methods to worry about. It requires highly trained sensitivity and a perfection of certain body mechanics that initially feel extremely awkward and unnatural. It is not as user friendly and straight forward as something such as muay thai, for example. Nevertheless, in gauging someone’s martial arts goals (whether it be perfection of a single art or gaining general well roundedness through crosstraining) you cannot judge them according to anything except their personal unique standards. I will freely admit that i see some people who just don’t learn that easily and it seems that crosstraining in different ranges just confuses them. But at the same time, I also see many people who are very dedicated and talented and seem to have the ability to crosstrain very effectively. When they are doing muay thai, they are just as good (and in many cases even better than) the people who are training in muay thai alone. In Bjj, they are just as good (if not better than) most of the people training in Bjj alone. And then when it comes time to don the head gear and harbingers for some freestyle sparring, the crosstrained individuals almost always clean house. As for me, I have always felt that i have an innate talent for learning martial arts. I crosstrain, but I never feel confusion in combining the different elements into one cohesive unit and I never feel that it affects my ability to satisfactorily hone the skills of each individual range. Perhaps Jujutsu Guy is the same way, or perhaps he isn’t. That really depends on his own ability. I personally do not feel that it is your place to tell him what his limits are. I told him to give it a try if he wishes to. If he tries and doesn’t feel that he can keep up, he can of course go back to studying Bjj alone. But you and I certainly are not qualified to tell him that successful crosstraining is beyond his ability. Let him at least try it out. Perhaps he is better than you and will be able to do it well. I know PLENTY of guys who can (yes, even with wing chun).
BTW, Even an EXCELLENT wing chun man can and WILL be taken to the ground. William Cheung has been, and still is considered one of the premiere Wing Chun bada$ around. Unfortunately that did not stop Wing Tsun practitioner Emin Boztepe, who’s grappling skills are extremely poor by MMA standards, from throwing him down and pummeling him with a very inefficient ground and pound. That being the case, I hate to see what a well trained grappler would do to a wing chun man not nearly as skilled as Sifu Cheung.
Food for thought.
There is only one martial art.
So many people practice WC (or any other kung fu style) and think that just because the sets are performed standing up, that’s all they are capable of.
Similarly, they think that the moves from combat sets are performed exactly as they are done in the sets on live opponents - which any REAL kung fu master would tell you is never the case.
Instead, the PRINCIPLES behind the art are more important - one can and should learn how to adjust to any situation by practicing kung fu.
This is what Bruce Lee meant by “A punch is ‘like’ a punch”.
Hmm!
I am a firm believer in going all the way =) If you want to learn striking, don’t rely on half ass thrown in stuff from BJJ. Go all the way, learn Wing Chun.. for the same reason I don’t believe in the Ving Tsun people who incorporate grappling into Wing Chun.. I’d much rather learn BJJ.
I don’t know how good of a mix it’d be for real life encounters… In BJJ wouldn’t you want to go straight to the ground? Then against, against certain mounds of muscle, groundfighting isn’t as good as striking. BJJ is the undisputed master of grappling, and WC is (to say the least) the most popular form of (and in my opinion the best) close range striking combat… So at least you won’t be half assing it.
“You have to consider the possibility that god does not like you; he never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. It is not until we have lost everything that we can do anything.”
…
Actually, the Boztepe thing is crap =) They tricked Cheung into putting on his super slippery Kung Fu sandals on the gym floor he was teaching at “For pictures.” Even when Cheung was on the ground with Boz on top of him, Cheung came out without a scratch (though admittidely he did not look very impressive, or win the battle by any means.) But he did manage to deflect the hits.
SCott.
“You have to consider the possibility that god does not like you; he never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. It is not until we have lost everything that we can do anything.”
Using both
I have 6 years of Wing Chun experience, with Jui - Jujitsu being one of the best styles around, I spent 3 years learning it with my Wing Chun. I put them together, and it became rather effective.
I have to agree with KONG…stick to one style now…then let’s say u get to BLUE BELT level in BJJ then u can move on to a striking art like wing chun! I have trained in wing chun under WILLIAM CHEUNG org. and am currently training in BJJ/SUBMISSION WRESTLING…I do not believe that they compliment each other very well. It does not FLOWWWWWWWWWWWWW…
SCOTT…it doesn’t matter if WILLIAM CHEUNG was fighting barefoot…he got raped on the ground. EXCUSES about KF shoes…NIKE…ADDIDAS etc…are ridiculous. If Emin had more time he could have done some serious damage…instead he booked with his crew. This is a prime example why u should be a COMPLETE FIGHTER. Learn to fight standing up and on the ground…then pick one and specialize. If u’re blessed…ala Frank Shamrock…u can do both and flowwwwwwwwwwwww
A
Cross Training
First of all I must say that Wing Chun isn’t the only art I have studied, though most of the various arts I trained in were as a kid thru most of my teenage years. I guess I was trying to find the art that was right for me. Though I did mess around with Xing Yi, 7 Star-Preying Mantis as well as a few other systems. Though it wasn’t to master them, or to add to my Wing Chun, it was more or less to get an idea how other systems/styles worked. I am not a real believer in cross training and I will explain why.
I think if we all look back on how the ancient masters of old, who became so great is due to the amount of time and dedication they had in thier arts as well as in thier lives. This was do to the fact that they trained 10 ours a day or more 5-7 days a week. This was thier life! We today (at least most of us) are not capable of doing this. We work, go to school, have families ect. I find it hard sometimes working and training on my skills from one art without having to train in 2 or 3 other styles on top of that.IMHO. I am also a true believer that there are only so many ways to punch, kick, grapple etc, so don’t go looking for that magical technique somewhere else, usually if you give your system enough time you will find what you are looking for. This is not to say one system is superior, it is to say don’t be so quick to jump to another style without giving yours a chance. Just because what you are looking for isn’t being shown now, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. I have an example of this. When I first started training Wing Chun my teacher kept telling me that Wing Chun was a complete art. Well, to be honest I didn’t believe this because the footwork seemed so limited and slow, I knew something didn’t seem right. Well years later once I began Bat Chum Do training-I found what I was looking for, there was the footwork I knew had to be there is a so-called complete system. I hope this makes sense. 
I am not telling people not to cross train, or even that it is a bad thing, just give your system a chance before getting discouraged and quitting. Especially if you really enjoy and believe in the system you have picked.As I believe you do, or you wouldn’t be in it still. 