An appeal to return this to a real Kung Fu forum again

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

Fellow Martial Artists:

With a martial arts back ground that is primarily in Japanse Karate, Uechi Ryu and Aikido, I do not often post here as my knowledge of the Chinese arts are very limited. I do however, read the conversations that go back and forth between everyone and have really enjoyed the now huge thread about the secrecy of Southern Mantis. That thread alone is the reason I came to this forum and in two weeks, (after much research I have found a local mantis school that comes highly recommended), I will be taking my first class. I think it will be interesting to see how the almost miliaristic atmosphere of Japanese martial arts will compare to a Chinese school.

Be sure that after that first class I will be posting more often as I will then have a limited base to begin asking questions about style and techniques.

I have been reading this forum for over the year and have noticed the Troll trend really come to light in the past few months. Granted, sometimes we get fooled. But when we see threads that are started by Ralik, or any of the other 23 ways he spells his name, why do we even read or respond to it?

I have seen so much trash talking and challanges in the past couple weeks that this forum is beginning to remind me of Jr. High school when our mantra was, “Meet me in the alley!” It is getting old very quickly and not as educational as it used to be.

My biggest concern is that there are people who’s posts I used to look forward to reading that have left. Usually with a tert message saying that this forum is too immature and they must leave…otherwise they just stop posting all together. Others have resorted to beginning their own private Troll Free forums. I know that Richard Mantis has done so, which means that those with mantis experience that have been invited to join, will now likely stop posting here.

So what is left? Trolls, inexperienced kung fu students, and experienced ones that just havn’t taken the time to begin their own forums but will be leaving soon. Board it up!

So the question I propose is…what are we going to do about it?

2

Well, you can only do what you can do.

Start posting more relevant topics.

There are only a few people here who for some reason are unable to stay on the topic of Chinese martial arts. When a good post arrives it usually attracts a few like minded individuals.

Some will attempt to be spoilers by throwing in their old chestnut diatribes and yes I agree, ignoring them is best.

THere are currently a few posters here who can’t get enough regarding the topics of groundfighting, jujitsu , mma and so on. which is fine in context to Kung Fu.

I’m sure they just don’t realize that there are forums out there populated with martial artists who can supply them with all the answers they need, but instead they choose to be here.

I don’t know why, they just are.

So, as the old saying goes, “If you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem”.

Lurking is fine, but it is also a form of taking without reciprocity. The lurkers with good topics to post should post them.

It’s a free forum. Relevant content would be a bonus. It seems some members just can’t get off the topics that don’t relate to Kung Fu. Some posters even just burn up forum space with idle chit chat about nothing, cluttering the threads.

No point in getting mad about it, just post some good stuff and people will respond. If the subject is pertinent enough, the threads will grow and the content will begin to be more relevant than irrelevant.

Thanks for your help in this matter.

peace

3

instead of moaning about it, why not start off some amazingly interesting topics

and who the hell are you anyway?

4

jaz1069

It would be ideal if we could get the ball rolling but really all you have to do is like Kunglek said, start posting on relative topics and dont feed the fire on the trolls, etc…
Good luck with your first class!

5

There have been a couple intelligent strings here in the last few days…you just have to skip over the trolling and joking.

This forum is a microcosom of the martial arts world, tons of junk laying ontop of a small pile of gold.

"I think it will be interesting to see how the almost miliaristic atmosphere of Japanese martial arts will compare to a Chinese school. "

It all depends on where you train. My kung fu instructors where much harder to deal with than my aikido instructors. Good luck and don’t be surprised.

6

Amen

I try to only post when I have something to input and have begun to turn away from any thread started by someone who seems to be filling up the forum with drivel.

I just wish I wasn’t getting sucked into threads that seem interesting only to find that they’ve been hijacked by some ignoramus or are really private emails between people who know eachother. Perhaps we all need to start rating topics, as well as looking at them.

I’ll also try to start posting some. I’m not an expert or a bad ass, just a guy who likes martial arts and wants to improve.

Lastly, whats up with the lack of profile info? I don’t need to know peoples gender, age or email but it would be nice to know what their experiences are as a basis for their opinions. Is this forum full of Black Belts in Tae Bo? The privacy advocates know who they are.

7

Interesting thread. Yet again I see a thread about Ralek ‘leaving’ and what do you know, its got three pages of replies.

DON’T FEED THE TROLLS.

they bite.

8

Heavy sigh…

Originally posted by Sharky
[B]instead of moaning about it, why not start off some amazingly interesting topics

and who the hell are you anyway? [/B]

Sharky:

Rereading my post several times I thought it was pretty much flame proof. Oh well…but I would appreciate your keeping your language under control.

Though I may of done nothing you are aware of to earn your respect, I’m not aware of anything I’ve done to earn your disrespect.:wink:

9

Great response Mr. Lek.

In the posts that go sour or cause a huge fireball, its cause someone posts their indisputable truth strongly and is willing to back it up with conviction. These posts tend to get silly after a while, but we all need to vent.

Every once in a while I’ll throw things out there for something to do. Most of us are males here with egos to match! hahaha Challenge me I say. I’ll try to rationalise my point, and at times I have recinded some comment or suggestion I had made. Why? Because I was challenged, and that alone is the key to achieving and maintaining good gung fu.

Regarding trolls? Too many folks around these parts that are bored and stop to feed the trolls. I don’t know about you, but in each and every one of them threads, I sure as heck see the signs: DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

Got Milk?

nospam.
:cool:

10

I disagree with one concept - that known career trolls should be suffered, ala “DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS”. I find it deplorable that system administrators do not deny these avowedly disruptive users their posting privileges. Since when do a$$holes have a right to pee on the coffeetable? Is this forum run by a private company, or is it a federally-funded public space?

Attracting and retaining good posters follows the same business rules that attracting and retaining good customers does. If you make the experience pleasant and safe, the customer will return again and again. If you allow a second customer to remain in your store while he harrasses the first customer, you will lose the good customer and soon have a store full of the bad ones, who buy nothing.

If the administrators contemplated for a moment the tremendous assets being lost (good intelligent posters) by taking no action to remove these liabilities (nasty little trolls dedicated to dissent and destruction), they might be able to take effective action to make this marketing vehicle (the forum) a more productive tool for their business (selling martial arts magazines and supplies).

I used to really, really like KFO. Now, I wander in once in a while, then wander back out, because of all the noisy juvenile posturing. I buy nothing from martialartsmart.com, and will most likely allow my magazine subscription to lapse.

I’ve tried “being a part of the solution”. Frankly, unlike Gene Ching, I am not being paid to make the KFO forum a fun and successful interactive community. I will only try so many times before all the noise makes it a waste of my time. It would seem that many other people feel the same way.

11

Kung Lek - I think you’re a great guy but I have one question.

Why do you close down Martial Joe’s thread, but leave all of Ralek’s open?

I know MJ’s thread was mostly non-martial arts related but at least it was civilised - and there were some important posts there. Loads of troll threads are just full of abuse and filth - but they stay open.

Why?

12

If there’s anyone who’s got a bug up their butt about “right and wrong” “moral and immoral” it is me. :wink:

But I can say this…even though there can be some dumb things here, it really is tame compared to some of the other forums I’ve been to :frowning: That’s why I like KFO more than the others…generally people have respect for people, have good characters, don’t post offensive material, etc. There’s the bozos that do, but I don’t think they are the majority…whereas in some other forums…

But Jas can’t leave!! :frowning: We’ll clean it up. :slight_smile:

Ryu

13

A question for you Ryu.

What do you think of chinese martial arts?..I just want to know! You are always telling us about how you would’nt like to face a BJJ purple belt with a bad attitude and so and so but I never see you write about a Wing chun guy with ten years of training!..Or a hung gar Sifu etc. You get my point?
You see, many wrestlers come here but why?..Is it to share?.. To teach?..To learn? (I dont think so)To shine?..

14

Well, I haven’t had that much experience with TCMA, and I’ve not really sparred or fought them that much either. I did beat a military guy/security guard who claimed they taught him Eagle Claw or something in the military, but I don’t know if it was true or not. He wasn’t much of a fighter. I have a Chinese friend who does Northern and Southern Shaolin Kung Fu (I think that’s what it is) Now he’s good, and I love working with him because his feet are so **** fast, but when we spar I still am able to get him on the ground and either punch or lock. He wants to learn a bit of my stuff so he knows what to do down there, and he’s teaching me some Chinese sword forms because I think they’re beautiful, and I like some of the “fencing” aspects of them.

Wing Chun I never really fought… I went to a WC school once when I was like 15, but I don’t think they were really good because I used the JKD blast to just chase them backwards when we sparred…but it was a mckwoon. A guy who trained from a guy who knew a Chinese “master” LOL :slight_smile:

I think any martial art if trained realistically and with some contact and occasional sparring can be functional. I am not stupid enough to think that I can take on someone just because they do “kung fu” People like Cung Le and others all can drop me. I know they can, and I don’t claim that they couldn’t :smiley:

So I guess I’m more afraid of BJJ, etc because that is the style I’ve faced and trained in more maybe. And I have experience on what that one can do. But I’m sure there’s kung fu guys out there that can take me out too. It’s an athleticism, attributes thing I think.

I come here because most people are nice, I enjoy Asian culture, and I think most people here are interesting. I’m very open to learning some things about KF, I’m not here to debunk it.
Why would I do that?

Ryu

15

This board actually was good when I first came on about 2 years ago.

Now, it’s sort of like Yemen or Afghanistan - lawless, faceless, shameless, substanceless.

I’ve tried constantly to post real topics here, but clearly they are not of any interest to anybody here except those guys like JasBourne who’ve basically left.

This forum reflects what’s going on in real life quite vividly. Throw darts at others without revealing your face. Show some disrespect and maybe people will fear you. Forget substance, it’s too difficult to achieve. Embrace sensationalism and you ensure (in)fame forever.

The weenies doing the flaming here are weenies in real life as well.

16

Jas Bourne brings up a good point. This is a for profit web site. So why wouldn’t Kung fu magazine want to keep their good “customers” coming back? It would be like having a TV station and you kept re-running bad shows. Who’s gonna watch the commercials in between? Or in this case the banners for martialartsmart.com.

I have often found good advice/information on this website but I often have to wade through the personal flame wars and other crap on the site. So I spend less time here than I would and more time at sites like cyberkwoon.com, hungkuen.net and clfma.com which are better moderated.

I would like to point out that this new format is better in the sense that you put people on your ignore list. I currently have Ralek and Ego Extroadinaire on my ignore list (no need to respond guys I’m never gonna see it.) problem is that you can’t block out the threads that they start.

This website could benefit from looking around at what other sites are doing, specifically cyberkwoon.com. They break up their forums into better categories.

17

Thanks Ryu!

You answer my question in a nice way and I appreciate.
All the best.

18

By not at least filtering content for blatantly disrespectful posts, this forum has been a monument to poor marketing since I first came here in Summer 2000. It’s only gotten worse since then.

Let’s take a look at it from a basic marketing perspective. First, you get all types that will visit here. That’s ok. Any retail store will have all kinds of people wandering in to check it out when it first opens. However, if the store doesn’t control the quality of the product they offer, their shelves will be full of mostly poor quality products since they are cheaper to produce, kind of like a trinket store for tourists. Soon, the serious shopper looking for quality and willing to pay more money for it will reach a threshold past which they are no longer willing to sift through aisle after aisle of junk to find quality items. They will then simply take their money elsewhere. This also means that any in-store advertising becomes completely useless and itself becomes wasted money on the part of the store owner.

Now, it’s valuable to know where the serious customers are going. After being burned by the last store, they are going to be looking for a place with a reputation for only quality products being offered, even if they have to pay a little more for it. This second store has the advantage that, while fewer total customers may walk through the door than the trinket shop, each customer is far more likely to be a buyer, more likely to spend more per purchase, and more likely to become a repeat customer at this higher spending level. However, this second store also has two more significant advantages.

One, any in-store advertising they use will be far more productive since it’s associated with the quality their customers already trust. An example, a placard advertising automotive parts hanging in a Mercedes-Benz showroom will automatically be considered to be of higher quality than the same placard advertising the same products hanging in the showroom at Krazy Karz used car lot. As a result of this, the advertiser in the second type of store gets faster and better brand recognition.

Two, the second type of store can advertise its reputation for quality out-of-store and the ad will have credibility, thus drawing in even more high-quality loyal customers who are willing to spend more money.

Everyone’s seen the KFO Forum ads in the martial arts magazines. Ever wonder how much more productive these ads could be, in terms of cold hard $$$, if KFO could also advertise a consistent reputation of quality and a high signal-to-noise ratio? Perhaps certain serious martial artists with money to spend wouldn’t so easily dismiss a KFO ad as just another place for random chatter, trolling, flaming, unreliable information, etc. If those same serious customers decided to come here and saw the advertising, they might be willing to part with some of that money. Otherwise, most of the on-site advertising is being wasted on a predominance of trolls, kids with no money to spend, and a relatively few serious folks who haven’t necessarily made the association of quality to anything related to KFO.

19

The problem is that people like Ralek, and Jacki and whoever else is constantly flaming and trolling, keep coming back with other names. No matter what anyone does, they will always be here, unless they shut down the forum! People will be people, and those that want the attention are like little kids…they will do ANYTHING they can to get it. Like those I mentioned before.

I think almost everyone has tried to get this place back on track. But, unfortunately, you have those that can delete the forums they want to, and keep the ones that they want as well. And when those people aren’t helping a whole lot, we have a real problem.

I do agree with Jas though. I come in here and then leave again, because it’s usually all crap threads and such. It’s getting pretty pointless. And when there is a good thread, people ruin it as fast as they can, to make everyone else mad!!! But, oh well, people will be people!!

~Wen~

20

There is also that “club” flavor many find here.There are people we like to simply chat with,tease and maybe simply enjoy their virtual company. I think that making this place a second cyberkwoon would kill that feeling in no times.I dont want to feel like in a church or public library, where you just can’t have a laugh or make some noise because some srarecrow moderator will ban you on the spot!
Many times.OT threads are a great place to enjoy some kung fu “camaraderie” and I feel they should be tolerated provided the are acceptable for all.