Amateur Athletic Union 2008 Review

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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Amateur Athletic Union Chinese Martial Arts Tournament 2008 Round Rock Texas.

Myself and Masherdong Both competed here although we had no clue the other was there, even though I did wear a shirt that said SanHeChuan on the back.
Htowndragon was also there but didn’t compete since there was no san shou.
I was surprised that Yutyeesam wasn’t there. Sha0lin1 might have been there too, I don’t know. :confused:

It was a fairly small venue, one price to compete in as many events as you wanted which was cool. You did have to pay an extra 27 dollars to become an AAU member for the year which was gay, but necessary I guess. We ran out of time and didn’t get to do all the events like continuous sparring. Shuaijiao and some other events got cut off which sucked hard. I was suppose to compete for 3rd in Shuaijiao but they wouldn’t do it. I want a refund man!

It was fun save for the time issue. They should have put the Wushu guys in a different ring while the traditional guys went to save time. I don’t think they had enough judges though. And whats with Wushu guys competing in Traditional with paired down wushu forms, that’s gay.

Masherdong and I competed together in the emptyhand forms he took 1st I got 2nd, just based off scores I think I was suppose to win though. I think I got 8.3 across the board what did you get? It only bothers me that I might remember incorrectly. I’m not that old that I can’t trust my memory yet am I, scary. :smiley:

I have video but only of myself.

SanHeChuan Kung fu Badass :rolleyes:

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Masherdong and I competed together in the emptyhand forms he took 1st I got 2nd, just based off scores I think I was suppose to win though. I think I got 8.3 across the board what did you get? It only bothers me that I might remember incorrectly. I’m not that old that I can’t trust my memory yet am I, scary.

My scores were 8.3, 8.3, & 8.2. I think you had 8.3, 8.2, & 8.2 because I remember my Sifu telling me that I beat you by a tenth of a point.

It was a good tournament and probably the best run as I have seen. Everything was going smoothly up till the last 30 min when they were cancelling events and rushing people away. I didnt get to compete in knife sparring! WAAAAAHHHH!!

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Just to clarify…

The Contemporary Wushu division was run in the same ring as the traditional…but the scores and medals were not connected. The medals given out for those were Contemporary Wushu - like a Gold in Changquan or whatever.

The only mixing there was was in gender. The men and women in one division - Adult Traditional Northern - Intermediate - for example, ran as a group and were scored using the same yardstick… But, when the places and awards were made, the women and men were split out.

You are right about why they were not split into other rings…we had too few judges. We were expecting at least 3 to 5 more judges to show up for Traditional events. Seems that the cost of travel this year hit a lot of people. One teacher not from Austin stated that their students did not come because the cost of gas and food and hotel was too much for them this year. (Gas was the big one).

The time out - when things were canceled… there was another event that had the area earlier and we were told we had to be out by 7 PM. This will be addressed next year.

The single price for as many events as you wish will be kept as far as I know.

Personally, I enjoyed it..and all of the competitors were great in sportsmanship and understanding.

Of course, any ideas for improvement are 100% welcome…the AAU meeting was held Sunday. There was Board business but it was open to anyone who wanted to attend. There were AAU supplied breakfast tacos from the hotel - even :slight_smile:

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The other thing I noticed, was that I was in the Adult Men’s Int group. I signed up for the Executive (35+) Int division for empty hand, staff, and broadsword. But, that is ok. It is nice to see that the old guy can hang with the youngens. :slight_smile:

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GLW: Were you our Head Judge??

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Suggestions :smiley:
Start Earlier, Skip the demos, Let the junior BB judge the kids to free up the senior guys to judge multiple rings. Don’t kick us out until we’re done. Find a loop hole for the SanDa. :smiley:

Masherdong,
What style of northern mantis do you do? I’m wondering if we are gongfu cousins.

I remember correctly. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Masherdong,
What style of northern mantis do you do? I’m wondering if we are gongfu cousins.

We do Taiji Plum Flower Mantis, but we have a few Wah Lum Forms from Sigung Arthur D’Agostino’s previous style.

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guilty as charged.

One thing that I mentioned in our review of things Sunday was the sign up.

I hate it when the competitor has to sign up at the judge’s table. To me, it slows things down. It is confusing. I had no sheets with the divisions on them so I had to make it up on the fly as to how to get everyone signed in and into the correct divisions. I am glad there was only one Sr. in the adult…had I known, I would have made the award for that one as a gold…

Don’t know how well things went…but I try to follow all of the rules and make sure that ALL required judge meetings happen. Basically, when you have judges that you are not familiar with, you need to have a short one when changing levels (Beginner to Intermediate to Advanced) and when you change divisions so you can make sure everyone is looking at the same thing. I tend to be at the lower end of the scores…but I often am more critical.

One thing that will be coming is a slight change to scoring ranges. 6-7.5 for beginners, 7.5 to 8.5 Intermediate, and 8.5 to 9.5 for advanced with 9.5 to 10 being for very advanced. The highest score a you can get for beginner is 7.5, Intermediate - 8.5 and advanced…if you get over 9.5 it is that you are approaching International level…

So…without killing me too badly, what should I do to improve as a judge?

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As for the other suggestions… all on track..

The idea of getting advanced people to judge the juniors for Beginner and Intermediate is something we are talking about.

We want to be able to apprentice new judges…but we also want to make sure that a person will not get either an inflated or deflated score at the same event if they judge at a lower level.

This is doable…but requires that we structure the schedule in such a way that the advanced folks can be identified and allowed to judge without messing up their preparation or the schedule for their events.

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Start Earlier, Skip the demos, Let the junior BB judge the kids to free up the senior guys to judge multiple rings. Don’t kick us out until we’re done. Find a loop hole for the SanDa.

^^ Start earlier and dont kick people out for something they already paid for. If you do, then get ready to give some partial refunds back. I would still like to see the demos, those are what get people into the MA’s.

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[QUOTE=GLW;878174]Just to clarify…

Seems that the cost of travel this year hit a lot of people. One teacher not from Austin stated that their students did not come because the cost of gas and food and hotel was too much for them this year. (Gas was the big one).

[/QUOTE]

That’s what kept me out. I woulda had to either drive down a get a hotel or fly down rent a car and get a hotel. I just couldn’t spare $200-300 for a weekend right now.

Good to hear fun was had by all and that there would be a next year.

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My videos are up:

www.youtube.com/user/masherdong

As stated before, I won Gold for Empty Hands, Silver for Staff, and Bronze for Broadsword. Enjoy!

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[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;878156]Amateur Athletic Union Chinese Martial Arts Tournament 2008 Round Rock Texas.

Myself and Masherdong Both competed here although we had no clue the other was there, even though I did wear a shirt that said SanHeChuan on the back.
Htowndragon was also there but didn’t compete since there was no san shou.
I was surprised that Yutyeesam wasn’t there. Sha0lin1 might have been there too, I don’t know. :confused:

Yes I was there, for coaching my students though, not competing. I was the guy in the red pants with the vest. I had three competitors for forms and as a school we did pretty good. I had one in childrens 8-11 and he got a silver for open hand. I had one in northern traditional intermediate open hand, and staff, and beginner wushu long fist. The guy with the beard and bald head. He got Bronze, Gold, and Gold respectively. I had another adult competitor for beginner northern open hand and he tied for third but ended up loosing by the way they broke the tie.

They didn’t have enough judges, there should be 4 corner judges and a center and all rings only had 2 and the center. I thought the judging left much to be desired. My guy should have at least got silver in his open hand, he rocked it! His stances were high though but his speed, power and form were right on. He almost got disqaulified because he completed his form in 29.5 seconds with a 30 second minimum. This kind of irks me, when we train we train to burn our forms, the way wushu is supposed to be. Seemed like you got rewarded for slow, methodical performances that looked like dancing. Heck, one guy dropped his spear almost spearing one of the shuai jiao competitors in the back and one judge gave him an 8.9? I guess they gave out extra points for errors. One of Shi Yan Feng’s students (the little boy in the yellow) was there as well. This kid was phenomenal for 8 years old. He was clearly better than the rest of his peers but still got second in his open hand division.

Wished I would have known you guys were there, I would have liked to have met you in person. I do remember seeing you in that shirt, but I didn’t put two and two together at the time.

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Seemed like you got rewarded for slow, methodical performances that looked like dancing.

I was slow and methodical?? I looked like I was dancing?? Based on everyone’s feedback at the tournament, I rocked. :confused:

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Well…the things that everyone always talks about in reviewing a competition are :
Did the competition start on time
Did it seem organized and under control
Was the judging OK.

I agree 100% about the time. I am used to starting with competitors around 10 AM… At Taiji legacy, we usually hit the rings around 11 due to he demo portion. 2 PM is just too late for my tastes.

I agree about the number of judges. I prefer having 5 scoring and then the head judge (does not score). There is a lot going on for a Head judge to do to have to score as well…

I would also like to add that while I can’t speak for all judges, I know that most - especially myself - appreciate it when a competitor comes up and asks for clarification on their score and what we were looking at.

Now, keep in mind this has to be done AFTER they are done competing in areas where they may be judged by the judge they are asking. We can’t talk about technique or specifics with any competitor while I am judging. It would be inappropriate and close to score tampering.

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As for the time limits :
The time limit for Traditional is set at 30 seconds. It will be changed to 45 seconds for Advanced and left at 30 seconds for Beginner and Intermediate. There is going to be a proviso in this. That is, if you KNOW your routine is not 45 seconds long, you must inform the judge of the expected time and you will be given a leeway - that is not yet determined but it will be something like you saying..My form is 30 seconds long…so you would be held to 25 to 35 seconds for time.

No one was disqualified for time. What was told to all competitors at the sign in when everyone was supposed to be standing there was that time limits would NOT be enforced for Beginner and Intermediate competitors. However, we WOULD inform them when they went under time so they could adjust for that in the future. There were only a few that were under, NONE were in advanced. The advanced competitors had the time limit enforced…and there were no time limit problems there.

Time limit deductions are not a disqualification. They are a Head Judge deduction. This means that you get your scores…do the calculations to get the final score…announce that score and then announce the under time deduction and announce the final score with deduction…which is the one that is used for placement.

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Tiebreakers:
For ties…if there is a tie and one of the people had a Head Judge deduction, the leading place goes to the person with the deduction. The reasoning is that the person would have been ahead had they not had the deduction.

Now is where the ties get tricky… With 5 judges scoring, you drop the low and high..average the 3 remaing scores. If there is a tie, you add in the low and high and average again. If there is still a tie, you look at the high score. If there is still a tie, you look at the low score. If there is still a tie, you award two medals of the place and no medal for the following place. (as in, if there is a tie for first that can’t be broken in the 3 tie breakers, you award 2 first place, no second, then a third.

With fewer judges…and we only had 3…I would have preferred to run 1 less ring with both rings have a full set of judges…but that was not my call…

So…with 3 judges, you can’t add in a dropped low and high…so you go to tiebreaker #2…look at the high score. Then you look at the low score if there is still a tie…and then if it is still tied, you give 2 awards for the position.

We had one actual tie that could not be broken this way.

There WAS a problem with at least one other ring… They were doing ties with re-performing. None of the competitions around for Chinese Arts do re-performing. This was a hold over with a couple of people being used to Karate events and it WAS how the AAU CMA rules were specified a few years back…3 or 4 years ago.

The reason for NOT doing a reperform:

If you do the same form: Judges will know what to look for…and this boils down to at any time, two close individuals can jockey for 1st and second…IF they are truly tied…so we assume they really are…so we don’t want to do this. Tiebreaker reperforming also takes more time…

Then…do you allow the same routine or require a different one…? If so…how do you handle things like: Taiji - sword…most only know one sword set. Traditional Broadsword…how many sets do most know for this… I know 2 or 3…but generally practice only the one I am performing when I have a demo. Other weapons… You walk in to do Kwan Dao and tie…now you have to do another set…Kwan Dao…I only know one…would I have to create one or change weapons?

We took more of the gymnastic approach - no re-performing in those..and NEVER in the Olympics. (as we saw last night).

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I posted those things separately because they are all good points needing information and clarification.

What I described was the rules as they sit right now. If anyone wants to submit a suggestion for the rules to be changed…send me a note here…or post it or send me a note asking for my email… We are ALWAYS looking for suggestions. What happens then is the ideas are taken to the Rules Committee…if all of those people agree…the changes are submitted to the Executive Board. The Board rules are such that there has to be a 2/3 majority vote to NOT accept the Rules Committee recommendations…so..basically, if the Rules Committee says yes…it is pretty much a done deal.

In fact, if anyone wants to get active and be ON the Rules Committee, we have open slots and are looking for diversity in styles. You probably do NOT want to still be competing as that looks a bit strange. :slight_smile:

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Does Nick Scrima (of Florida) still have anything to do with the UUA? He used to be president of it didn’t he? Or am I mistaken?

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[QUOTE=GLW;878278]As for the time limits :
The time limit for Traditional is set at 30 seconds. It will be changed to 45 seconds for Advanced and left at 30 seconds for Beginner and Intermediate. There is going to be a proviso in this. That is, if you KNOW your routine is not 45 seconds long, you must inform the judge of the expected time and you will be given a leeway - that is not yet determined but it will be something like you saying..My form is 30 seconds long…so you would be held to 25 to 35 seconds for time.
[/QUOTE]

Confused here. Are you talking about 30 minimum or maximum??:confused:

Cause if it is maximum, even Lien Bu Chuan or Gung Li Chuan(taught at begging or intermediate in Long Fist) is going to be over 45secs. Only form I know that is less than 30secs is Lien Huan and Lohan Shi Ba Shou.

I don’t think I have ever learned an intermediate/Advanced form less than 50 secs. And I’ve taken 3 different kung fu styles.

Taiji Legacy limits are 30sec min/2min max for beginner to advanced traditional forms. Matter of fact most kf tournaments I have been to are much in the same way.

Please say it isn’t so with the 30sec time limit. That would definitely put me out. 99 of the form I know of and/or compete with last 50secs+ Unless I do a white belt form in the advanced division. :confused:

Am I reading your post incorrectly??