advice on training diet

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Training and Health
1

hey guys (and gals if any come here :p)

after a period of basically slacking coz of being depressed and stress, i am now officialy pis[SIZE=2]s[/SIZE]ed of and wanna get back in to training. :mad:

Basically i am wanting advice on how to try and gain a little weight/muscle. i am around 5’10" (178cm) and aorund 150lbs (68kilos) so a bit on the scrawny side. Guess that makes me an ectomorph :smiley:

Now, bearing in mind that i am also a student and on a VERY tight budget, i was wondering if u guys have any advice u can give me. Really i just need ideas of which foods are good for protein and stuff, and what is the best way to take it, when etc. i have looked at some old threads but there seems to be some conflicting advice so im confused :confused:

ok, to give you an idea of my training, read below:

Flexibility: basic Shaolin warmup and stretching methods to increase my flexibility and range of body movement, including jumping stuff.

soft Qigong: soft flowing exercises to develop internal health

hard qigong: harsher exercises using bodyweight and equipment such as bricks and a wall to develop strength and the ‘bones/muscles/skin’. Also breathing techniques to use the body

Wing Chun: Siu Lim Tao and basic movements

Stances: Zhan Zhuang and Mabu training.

Now im not really bothered about getting ‘big’ or anything like that… more just to become stronger (and if im lucky maybe a few pounds heavier). Kinda whole body strength, connected - The hard qigong really helps with that. But im more wondering about the food side as its important for me too :wink:

i dont think i would use supplements as a) expensive and b) dont like that idea, prefer food.

Any advice anyone can give me would be most appreaciated :slight_smile:
thanks,

dawood

2

dezhen2001,

My first advice would be to ‘up’ the food intake. Take a look at Fordperfect’s thread “Progress in Bulking Cycle” for some good advice.

Being of a meso type body frame, I don’t have a hard time gaining size/weight so I don’t eat as much as a hard gainer does… but for protein sources, I’d suggest eating ‘clean’, i.e. as many whole foods as possible. Some good sources of protein are chicken, turkey, lean steaks, cottage cheese and salmon (or other fish) for starters. I would do the same with your carb intake, i.e. eat whole wheat pasta/bread, yoghurt, nuts, wild/brown rice etc. You could supplement with some MRP (meal replacement powder) or Protein shakes as well (pretty cheap source of protein if you buy right).

For strength gains, I’d suggest looking into posts on this board about “Power to the People” (PTP for short), or Pavel Tsatsouline. A good exercise to build core strength is the “deadlift”. Try also looking up “Kettlebell” in your search as I have found this type of training well suited for ‘functional strength’.

KG

3

OK, generalisations first! :wink:

You need all the time lots of fruit and veggies, fresh and preferably as raw as possible. This will give you good fibre and lots of good vitamins and suchlike.

You should eat high carb food before workouts and high protein foods afterwards.

High cards:

Bread, rice, pasta, vegetables, etc.

High protein:

Eggs, cheese, tuna, chicken, beans, etc.

Red meat in moderation, maybe once a week.

Lots of water to keep your system clean. Not too much (if any) complex sugars like sweets and sodas, etc.

If you want to put on muscle mass, you have to train hard using weights or a heavy bodyweight routine (depending on how much you want to gain) and, most importantly, eats shedloads of food.

How’s that for starters?

4

thanks for the replies guys :slight_smile:

hmmm… well maybe i should tell u my diet already and we can take it from there:

meat wise i mainly eat chicken, some tins of tuna a few times a week and occasionally lamb or whatever.

i eat lots of rice, pasta, couscous, potatoes as well.

veg wise: spinach, pepper, cucumber, lettuce, tomato, eggs…

fruit: orange, apple, banana, melon.

nuts: chik peas, those ‘tropical’ mixed fruit and nuts etc.

Also of course i like to have a drink of coke or whatever someitmes as well, but plenty of water in between and milk too. Also ice cream and every now and then some junk food, but not so often.

Mainly when i cook i like to stir fry a lot in a big wok, someitmes cook things in the oven. so really its all pretty fresh. The thing is though i DO eat shedloads of those foods… usually enough for 2 people!

Like i said before, the hard qigong is kinda bodyweight related so its pretty much taken care of. Hard to explain the training, using breathing technique and movements holding bricks as well. i know from looking at my seniors and sifu that this fills the body out a little and makes it denser and stronger, so no need to worry about that.

i just dont know much about the food side, instead just buy things i like and cook them.

hmmm… sounds like i am eating the kinda right foods… maybe i should eat more:confused:

does anyone have a link handy showing the average weight for height and stuff?

dawood

5

Sounds like you’re on the right track with the foods.

As for the average weight by height and age… well, that’s not a very accurate way of comparison. I would suggest getting a skinfold caliper (to measure your bodyfat%), find out your lean weight. Then get online a look for a calculater that calculates your height, weight etc. to find your ‘Base Metabolic Rate’ (which is how many calories you burn per day when all you do is live a sedentary lifestyle). From there you can get an idea of how many calories you will need to consume per day. For instance some people need to double their calorie intake (from BMR) in order to gain any serious weight.

I don’t know your eating habits but I would suggest you increasing your food intake to 5 - 7 times a day.

KG

6

Kempo Guy: thanks a lot :slight_smile:

i DO actually eat 5 times or so a day plus snacks in-between…:confused: Like i said i dunno about nutrition or anything, i am just doing whats natural for me and what my body tells me.

hmmm… i will try to figure out my body fat ratio - i know its not much as im skinny and scrawny, and then see what i can do thanks.

dawood

7

Dawood, sounds like you’re doing all right. For more strength and bulk, add in lots of bodyweight stuff like push-ups, chin-ups, squats, etc., with lots of plyometrics also and load up on the protein after training.

Remember that strength isn’t directly proportional to size and some people will never be big like Arnie. Trust me, I’m a hard-gainer and then some! :wink:

8

hmmm… thanks guys, i seem to be stuck around 150lbs though no matter what i do. Even when i trained boxing when i was growing up with the weights and stuff it didnt really do anything.

i just tested online and got these results:

Body Mass Index = 21.35
Healthy Weight = 132-174 Lbs

so i guess i am in the ‘acceptable parameters’… :cool:

i think i will try the carbs before/protein after thing and see how it goes… maybe eat some yoghurt as well :smiley:

Yeh i agree strength isnt proportional to size, i can hit harder than a lot of friends who train and are bigger… i just dont wanna look like i do now, but fill out in a more natural way :wink:

i guess i just gotta keep eating and keep training lol

dawood

9

Originally posted by dezhen2001
[B]i guess i just gotta keep eating and keep training lol

dawood [/B]

When all is said and done, that, my friend, is the bottom line! :wink:

10

ok thanks guys… guess no one has anything else to add? :confused:

dawood

11

I would suggest starting a food log. A lot of people think they eat more food and callories then they really do. This way you will know exactly how many grams of protein and what not that you are eating.

If your just looking to get stronger there are some different ways you can go. Do you do any weight training?

12

hi Qi dup… yeh i kept a log for a while and im generally eating a healthy diet and training a lot. i dont really do weights as such anymore, as i found the hard qigong i do to give me better training, for muscle density and lung capacity as well as power.

thats why i cant understand why im not really putting any on… im sure im eating at least 1g protein for 1lb of weight… as well as plenty of all the other stuff. i must just be a ‘hard gainer’ to the nth degree :confused:

dawood

13

dezhen2001,

FYI, don’t confuse BMI with BMR (base metabolic rate).
You may have to increase your food intake by A LOT!
FWIW, my BMR is 2099 calories a day. When I’m trying to lean out I eat around 1800 - 2200 calories per day in order to create a calorie deficit. When I’m on a ‘bulking cycle’, I eat around 3000-3600 calories a day. That’s roughly 1.6 - 1.8 times my base metabolic rate. Having said that, I have read elsewhere that one should eat around 15 - 18 calories per pound of lean weight (which means subtracting your bodyfat % from your normal weight). BTW, I have read somewhere that a very active person burns around 3000 calories per day (please correct me if I’m wrong).

Hope this helps,
KG

14

Dezh, your diet looks fine… healthier than mine, I’m sure :smiley: If you want to gain more weight, you’re just going to have to keep eating what you’re eating, and more of it… maybe add a steak or some hamburger every once in a while (home cooked hamburger, not the rubbish from fast food places).

I don’t know your hard qigong program, so I can’t make any specific suggestions about it. You say it involves bricks as well as bodyweight?

15

hey guys, thanks :slight_smile:

hmmm… more food, d@mn im gonna have to stock up LOL dont have enough space in my fridge or cupboards as it is :smiley: it seems like a rice, tuna and beans diet for me :smiley: lol (kidding)

As for the hard qigong, its hard to explain if you dont see it. did you see the pic of me on my head? thats part of the training. bodyweight to develop the neck as well as top of head :stuck_out_tongue:

Also such things as 1 legged squats using a lot of downward momentum etc. and things like pushups etc.

the bricks are used with arms out almost straight with the breathing, and swung around then stopped quickly to work the waist, arms, fingers and back.

just to try to explain more… its hard to do lol

dawood

16

dude, just one thing on the mass index thing and all.
i dont think it should be taken too seriously, like acording to it i should weight 90kg, but that just wouldnt make sense for my bodytype, id be skinny (as oposed to normal) at that weight.
there are athletes (on fighting sports and other sports as well) whose mass would be considered too much, but they are healthy and strong.

17

thanks xebs… i tried all the tests online and stuff and it seems about normal, i just wanna maybe put on 5lbs or so and become more dense… we will see what happens :slight_smile:

how r ya anyway?

dawood

18

You actually have the same body type as I do. My natural weight is right around 150. Whenever I slack from training, I seem to revert to that weight. I’m currently just under 170 pounds, as I’m going through a bulking phase. Eating FREQUENTLY is the only effective way for you to gain weight. 3 large meals a day will not suffice. You must eat at least 6 meals per day and you will see a steady climb in weight as the weeks pass. Of coarse, the heavier you get, the harder it is to gain, as your body goes to great lengths to stay as close to its natural genetic weight as possible. Your basic mass building workouts are squats, dead-lift, and bench. Pullups are good too. A complete breakfast is extremely important as your body is usually lacking nutrients after going some 8 hours with no food, and may be eyeing the available protein source found in your muscles by this time. If you miss a meal, you risk letting your body burn muscle protein for food. If you do not get enough carbohydrates, the same thing happens. Since you should be getting 6 meals, consisting of both protein and carbohydrates, I would recommend these affordable, easy to prepare foods:

Oatmeal
Hardboiled eggs (I prefer at least 4 per sitting)
Tuna - lots of it
Pasta
Peanut butter n jelly ( good for the muscles)
Brown Rice (an excellent energy energy source)

If you only buy one supplement, I would recommend it be a good supply of L-Glutamine. It is the most abundant amino acid in the body, and many different body parts compete for it. It has proven to help prevent muscle wasting in certain AIDS and Cancer patients, so just imagine how good it is for a healthy person’s muscles. 5g a day is more than enough.

Lastly, avoid coffee and other sources of caffeine. It will speed up your metabolism even more.

19

hi rick, thanks :slight_smile:

it doesnt seem to matter if i train or not, my body doesnt really seem to change at all lol

all the things u mentioned i already eat lots of hehe but for sure im gonna try to sort things so i can have more protein. i cant afford any supplemtnes so am trying to do it naturally, as well as mainly doing bodyweight type stuff as i dont have access (ie. money) to go to a gym.

dawood

20

The risk of the bodyweight excercises are that there often is not enough weight to put enough intense stress on the muscles with a low number or reps, so one ends up doing higher amounts of reps than necessary, and in the long run burning off more calories while demanding less of the muscles. They are great, however, for building muscular endurance, but that’s not quite the same as building mass. Oh well, gyms are expensive. Of coarse you can always wait till you’re over 30, that tends to help a LOT of people gain weight lol.
One more thing I can say is that when you first start gaining size, you often will not notice it. After all, you are around yourself constantly. Whenever I’m trying to gain, it takes a few weeks before people start saying stuff like “hmm.. you look a little bigger”, and I’m usually like “i do ??? i havent noticed”. Just a thought.