Maybe the picture on the Team Mantis website offers a clue. Is this Master Shi?
Knowing Tainan Mantis, I know he just report things as is without editing. So if his teacher said that he didn’t teach to this martial artist, we can only find out from Tainan Mantis’s teacher. From my impression (mostly from Tainan) of Shrfu Shr, he’s a pretty traditional guy. So I believe it is best to sought out his blessing before putting things out there. May be it is a communication problem? I am not sure of the situation here so I better not surmise on what happened. However, I can understand how the disclaiming can happen in this case. Personally, I don’t think Tainan meant anything negative about the info. My take is Cavet Emptor.
Mantis108
Shr’s students
ursa major,
I have no way of viewing the clips because I can’t get my real player to work. I can only watch mpegs. I would like to view their kung fu and make comments, but for this reason can not.
Shr Zhengzhong was not familiar with Sun’s name, but remembered his dad who also is a kung fu master.
Since Sun’s dad was friends with Wu Changying (my shr hsiung), Shr Zhengzhong said that Wu taught Sun.
I said," are you sure?"
He was sure.
The forms that Sun knows are the same forms that Wu knows. This I know because Wu did kung fu in the park with me for half a year.
His two man drills can not represent the fighting method of Pong Lai since he only learned the Pai An drill and that basic drill you saw in pics on Paul’s web site where one guy hits a stick. This drill should be done with two people not a person and a stick.
Interesting to note that while Wu was teaching kung fu in the states he studied with He Chongyen. Master He is also listed as a teacher of Sun.
He Chongyen’s teacher was Wu Shaolin. His biggest contribution to MA, in my eyes, is his long stick fighting method. It is called six harmony stick. Both small and big. The big version is also a partner form.
This master is famous for his ground boxing and longfist.
On the plus side I do not find Sun’s claims to be disturbing. Shr Zhengzhong is his Shr Ye, not Shr fu. In a few days I will ask him if he would like to host his shr ye next visit to the states.
Then he can go thru some of the formalities to become a proper student and nobody will be angry.
This way we can promote unity in the PM community.
BTW, the tiger swallow form is not a PM form.
Hua Lin,
That link you posted does indeed send us to a pic of Shr Zhengzhong.
Another pic shows He Chongyen and yet another shows Zhang Fuchen. Any students of John have probably heard stories about this last guy who is our Shr Hsiung.
Re: Shr’s students
BTW, the tiger swallow form is not a PM form.
On the website www.teammantis.com the description of the form Xiao Hu Yan reads as follows:
Xiao Hu Yan (Tiger and Swallow Boxing (1st set)) This is a Longfist Mantis form with longer range attacks, fast but smooth movement, strong leg techniques and takedowns. Power generation is quite different than in the Seven Star forms, as is the body movement.
On Lee Kam Wing’s website, this form is called “Small Tiger and Wild Geese Boxing”.
Mantisben,
If you look at the Mantis Cave under Longfist PM you will get a good historical review on this style.
This form is classified as Longfist PM by Paul Sun because Gao Daosheng used this name, long fist PM.
In truth Gao’s PM should be considered a type of MeiHua PM. But hsiao hu yen is not PM.
This form was brought to Taiwan by Wang Songting. He taught Gao Daosheng as well as Li Hongjie, both are my grandteacher. It was created in the early 30"s as part of the JingWu curriculum and is still practiced in China today.
The famous Japanese student of Su Yuzhang wrote that this form was passed down from Wang Lang himself. Now we can say that this surely isn’t true.
As far as the middle and large versions are concerned they were probably created in Taiwan.
Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
[B]
This form is classified as Longfist PM by Paul Sun because Gao Daosheng used this name, long fist PM.
In truth Gao’s PM should be considered a type of MeiHua PM. But hsiao hu yen is not PM.
It was created in the early 30"s as part of the JingWu curriculum and is still practiced in China today.
As far as the middle and large versions are concerned they were probably created in Taiwan. [/B]
Is this form like “Gung Lik Kune” in the sense that GLK isn’t a PM form, but it was part of the Ching Wu curriculum, and is usually taught as part of the PM system?
About Kung Lik Kuen…
Hi MantisBen,
Is this form like “Gung Lik Kune” in the sense that GLK isn’t a PM form, but it was part of the Ching Wu curriculum, and is usually taught as part of the PM system?
Gongliquan (Kung Lik kuen) was absorded into the Ching Wu curriculum. The earilest record of this one form system (Gonglimen) dated back to Qing dynasty Qianlong period (1736-1796 CE). So this form could be older than the USA or Canada. Master Wong Fung Ting in his book “Practicing Gongliquan” noted at least 2 versions available around the book’s publishing time (May 1964). His version was much longer and very repetitive [re: repeat to 4 directions]. The Ching Wu version (not necessary the other version that Wang was talking about) is much shorter. The interesting thing about the CW version is that it ends in 90 degrees position clockwise to the opennig position. If the form repeat 4 times clockwise, you will finish back at where you started just like Master Wang suggested (I think I will be dead by then, lol…) Just some interesting thing about the Gongliquan.
Regards
Mantis108