There is some light pounding and rubbing involved in the version I practice. there is small massage in the hands, the back of the head and neck.
I have looked at a couple of different versions of this now. There is some face washing and limb brushing in one, just the gongs in another and on the one i know there is small breaks for standing post before next section and in some parts a light pounding on the back, light rubbing on the lower back, grasp and rub the back of the head and neck and face washing massage at the end.
And yet, despite their differences, they are all called yi jin jing.
I do believe that old texts have been analyzed and the exercise has been repieced together while the direct transmission practice will morph ovber generations, hence the variations to the gongs, their sequence and the intent that is encouraged to be part of the practice.
Sorry, I am not in the know when it comes to Tibetan yoga other than one or two things that are very much the same as the Hatha Yoga asanas that I do know. There are so many asanas that like kungfu, you can find the sets that suit you, that fix you, that correct you, that help you and so on and many of the rest you can learn if you like, but basically you want to put together a set of asanas that will completely work the entire body, all it’s joints and as many of the muscles as can be worked while lengthening and strengthening tendons and lightly stretching/stressing the ligaments. Match body to breath and away you go.
THere is a lot of material out there. It’s a matter of finding what is going to work best for you. Sometimes that can take a while.
Yeah, YKM has massage and internal work but we dont call it Yi Jin Jing. Thats why i asked about Dr Yangs book i saw it and has similar stuff to what we do so i thought i would ask.
Tibetan Yoga is something i would like to try later, my internal has pretty much what i need i was trying to see how different or similar all these healing systems are. I guess they all reach similar roads in ways!
Well, like i said, it’s been variated and adapted from it’s original form anyway.
lots of things have come out of those two classics as far as buddhist qigongs go.
not to mention the fusion with the taoist versions of dhayana practice and their own stuff, hundreds if not thousands of other qigongs, the neigong sequences of exercises and so on.
THere’s quite a lot available, a lot of it is similar, but from school to school it is all a little different, slight variety etc etc.
I looked at allot of books on chi and massage. The problem is I don’t wan to use a book or a video, since they all worn that if you do it wrong, you are screwed.
And 20-35 bucks per lesson, I ain’t going there.
many people have used books and videos and what not to gain new information in their practice.
people who tell you that if you don’t learn it from them you are screwed only want your money and then you really are screwed!
There is a lot of “oh, this is the right way and that is the wrong way”.
Be wary of those who dwell on this and favour themselves as a ‘better’ source.
Everything has some usefulness to it in the wide array of practices in the genre of martial arts.
Wise folks can learn from fools better than fools can learn from wise folks.
having said all that, if the trasnmission is clear and understandable to you and to your best efforts you are practicing as shown, then no harm will come to you from the simple breathing exercises couple with body motion.
Like I said, it is unlikely you will find anyone who does things 100% the same as the next guy. If you can establish the basics, you can move forward with more confidence.
True, i have alot of books for massage, i have my remedial Massage qualifications and colon massage plus other healing courses ive done. Each book tells you different ways to do it and alot contradict each other. My question was to see if anyone has attained this Damo type training fully and how different or what they have acheive from it that you wouldnt from any other internal art or healing practise.
Well, there have been a number of threads about paoquan, hongquan, tongbeiquan… etc so I thought why not one about Yi Jin Jing which should be a fundamental practice in Shaolin.
I’ll start off with a question for LFJ as you studied with Shi Deyang and you have mentioned that in his videos Deyang only shows bare versions of the actual forms. I suspect the same (or even more so) goes for his videos on Ba duan jin and Yi Jin Jing. So the question is if Deyang actually teaches different levels of softness/hardness.
Keeping out tendon healthy and flexible is crucial and any exercise that helps is great.
We can’t really strengthen tendons, they are made of collegen fibers, but we can strengthen the muscles the tendons are attached to and keep said tendons strong by make sure that the agonist-antagonist muscles are strengthened.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1161056]Keeping out tendon healthy and flexible is crucial and any exercise that helps is great.
We can’t really strengthen tendons, they are made of collegen fibers, but we can strengthen the muscles the tendons are attached to and keep said tendons strong by make sure that the agonist-antagonist muscles are strengthened.[/QUOTE]
There is tendon hypertrophy it is just not nearly as pronounced as muscular development.
Any Gymnast will tell you, especially Ring specialists. Progress on Iron Cross and similar straight arm holds is measured in years precisely because of the slow metabolism of connective tissues.
A dead hang, no kipping muscle up on the rings has taken me nearly 18 months. It puts a huge strain on the tendons especially the elbow so over training is dangerously easy. I can’t do ring workouts more than once a week, sometimes twice else I’ll have to skip a week or two while my forearms recover. In my case it’s not an issue of pull up or dip strength it is purely difficulty getting through the transition which is where all the stress on the elbow is.
Well, in acupuncture, you can treat the sinew / tendon /ligaments. They are effective in treatment when you have needles in the right point locations especially with certain ligament pulls. It works on the sinew channels which are different meridians. It really is amazing how it works. Western medicine offers you rest only. Needle treatment can improve your situation in a day with the right acupuncturist.
Now that being said, the other day, my Shaolin shifu instructed a few of us to move our qi through the sinew channel to improve our certain movements. In TCM, we normally don’t really think about qi in those channels as much as the other main meridians or acupunture points. When I visually directed the qi flow through the sinews, it did indeed make my body move more effortlessly.
I’ve learned 3 different versions. I’ve learned a Shaolin version, with many different variations on each movements. Some I like more than others. I’ve learned some variations with dynamic tension which I think are cool.
I’ve learned a standardized version which I really like. This would be the version you would learn if you attended a sports or wushu school here in China. I’ve found most “standardized” wushu in China to be ****, except for this and the version of Baduanjin that goes along with it.
Then there is an advanced version of the standardized routine which is used in performance competitions. Competitions for qigong routines are stupid but this version is very challenging and very cool. While I’ve learned the movements it will be many years still until I can pull them off without looking like an idiot.
My martial training is currently centered around wado ryu karate & I’m not interested in changing that, but I have long been interested in yi jin jing & would love to learn it as a supplementary/general health practice. I live in northern Thailand where shaolin teachers are either non-existent or very much private. Are there schools at shaolin or elsewhere in China where I could go just to learn yi jin jing & shaolin qi gong? Thanks.
[QUOTE=Shen Yi;1161000]I’ll start off with a question for LFJ as you studied with Shi Deyang and you have mentioned that in his videos Deyang only shows bare versions of the actual forms. I suspect the same (or even more so) goes for his videos on Ba duan jin and Yi Jin Jing. So the question is if Deyang actually teaches different levels of softness/hardness.[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah. Because just about nothing is explained except how to move. Proper breathing is not even talked about. So you really gain no understanding of the practice or how to do it properly anyway.
There are minor differences in the movements in both his Baduanjin and Yijinjing, like staying flatfooted instead of raising the heels, but they are all there. This is not a different level, but just a change on the video versions.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1162208]Well, yeah. Because just about nothing is explained except how to move. Proper breathing is not even talked about. So you really gain no understanding of the practice or how to do it properly anyway.
There are minor differences in the movements in both his Baduanjin and Yijinjing, like staying flatfooted instead of raising the heels, but they are all there. This is not a different level, but just a change on the video versions.[/QUOTE]
Do you mean the videos show flat-footed but in actual practice he raises the heels?
Is the heel raise an optional thing? i.e. you can do it if it feels right; and it comes at the very end of the movement (and very end of the outbreath?). But it’s also okay to not raise the heels? For instance if you’re a bit tired and woozy that day, just getting started early in the morning and it’s still not very light out yet so your balance is bad, or things like that?
[QUOTE=rett;1162237]Do you mean the videos show flat-footed but in actual practice he raises the heels?
Is the heel raise an optional thing? i.e. you can do it if it feels right; and it comes at the very end of the movement (and very end of the outbreath?). But it’s also okay to not raise the heels? For instance if you’re a bit tired and woozy that day, just getting started early in the morning and it’s still not very light out yet so your balance is bad, or things like that?[/QUOTE]
Right, in actual practice it’s done raising the heels. For example, on the first exercise of Baduanjin raising the hands and also the heels. It has a practical function. This exercise pulls and stretches the waist, back, chest and abdomen to induce full circulation of qi and spread natural bodily fluids so that the entire body receives their nourishment. Raising the heels is drawing from the ground up, pulling and pushing negative energy (tiredness, laziness, stress, etc..) out of the top of the head (baihui). It’s quite a different feeling from doing it flatfooted. The big stretch helps to put your energy in motion and wake you up a bit more.
Thanks. So in that first baduanjin movement would breathe out as your hands reach their highest point (and then breath out a second time as the come to the bottom)?
Or would you reach the max point of the in-breath as the hands reach the top?
With the fingers interlocked when the arms push up overhead they come closer together and compress the upper chest. You should therefore exhale to reduce restriction and create a fuller stretch. So you would breathe out as you stretch up, and then breathe in as you come back down. Elbows open to the side, allowing the chest to expend back to normal, and relax.
