Does anyone know about William C. C. Chen Tai Chi Chuan? http://www.williamccchen.com/
Hmmm
Was the youngest of Cheng Man-ching’s Taiwanese disciples. Is a good fighter and studied hard with Cheng and his Taiji brother’s. Not the best of Cheng’s disciples but then I’m sure no one would declare that when their alleigance, lineage-wise, is to another disciple from Cheng’s Taiwanese big 20.
Still he is a genuine Matser of his art, and from what I hear is art is a very high level.
Very high level in his art, with a gentle and “fine” energy that can turn on a dime and become hard as steel. Has immense control over his output, as should be the case in someone of that level, or even below it. Is human like everyone else.
He used to teach most of his classes himself, but from what I read on his website when I looked at it a while back, that is changing.
Cody
My first martial art was William CC Chen’s Tai Chi. Do you want to learn to fight? He can teach you.
Yes, I do want to learn the taiji boxing? Will he teach me? Please, tell me about your experience there.
Well, I studied for 5 years under soome of his Senior Students here in the mid-west. I got to work with Master Chen about 2-3 times a year for those 5 years. I also got a chance to work with George Blank, who I understand teaches most of the classes while Master Chen is on the road.
One of the things I like about the school is that they have fighters being competetive in the San Shou scene. Check the FYIsection of his site.
What specifically do you want to know?
Maybe I’ll go check it out and get back to you on any questions I have. Thanks.
Hi,
I’ve seen a couple of Mr. Chen’s students fighting in tournaments over the last few years and was impressed with what I saw. They all seemed like skilled fighters and definitely did very well amongst some tough san shou fighters from the Praying mantis and Hung Gar schools. Thanks
Josh
WOW
I visited and was very impressed in every way. Master Chen took the time to talk to me for quite a while. Unfortunately, I found it to be very expensive.
I visited Master William C.C. Chen in New York in about 1988. My background was Karate, Hung style, Yang style Tai Chi and Wing Chun. He was very nice and spent a long time with me to explain about his Tai Chi. Then he demonstrated a few Tai Chi postures and their hitting impact. No matter what posture he sent me flying across the room with the impact feeling like a truck had just hit me. However he had lots of control so that I felt the impact but was not hurt. There was little sign of external movement. His movement went from very soft to very hard. In the mean time his class had on the boxing gloves and were practicing some freestyle Tai Chi fighting. At the end he gave me a couple of articles on body mechanics. He attributed everything to refined body mechanics as opposed to Qi (Chi) power. It was definitely a pleasure to meet Master Chen.
William C.C. Chen
Anyone got a list of the movements in William C.C. Chen’s 60 move Yang form? I can’t remember the sequence for a few parts of the form. thanks
Any students of William C. C. Chen Tai Chi here?
In Sam Sheridan’s “A Fighters Heart” he talks about training with Chen while injured from ringfighting…good book…
“Three Nails” The big toe, ball of foot and inside edge of the heel. They are the places the foot is rooted to the ground. It is as if your energy could drive nails into the ground to hold you; they are the basis from which you generate power. “When I started tai chi, i realize that power isn’t in the arms, it comes from the hips. And then, I start to think maybe ten years later I start to realize that power comes from the legs. after twenty years I saw that it’s actually coming from the toe.” you must feel power coming off of t he toe;driving energy down through your toes is some times what is referred to as “rooting” and it is what drives all of your movements.
one’s movements should be led by the fingers activated off the toe. chen punches with a hollow arm fist resembling the fist loosely opened in boxer gloves…
“Compression” when you learn to strike you are taught to inhale and exhale on the exertion…but it’s not just exhalation; it’s also compression. when a boxer hisses as he puynches it’s a form of compression.an exhalation, and open mouthed “whoo” of air, has no power. but when you control the air, when the karate guy shouts “KIAI” as he punches, that compression is what generates force. It’s like a grunt when you pick up something heavy; you have to make an internal compression to generate power. Boxers hiss or grunt; the Thai s yell.
“They say tai chi is relax, but what they mean is relax with compression’ when you lying in bed, you are relaxed, but there is little compression. It’s like a sick person in the hospital; they are walking around like a skeleton” “when they say ‘a boxer is out of gas’,they not mean tired, they mean cannot make compression,” " when you walk around with compression you think how cool I am. the compression is filling you up."
You guys know anything about this “compression?”
[QUOTE=diego;900163]You guys know anything about this “compression?”[/QUOTE]
Yeah. Go outside and either push your car down the street, or try to pick it up from the back bumper. Feel that pressure in your belly? That’s compression.
Greetings..
I have studied with WCC Chen.. i know Max and Tiffany, and i train regularly with one of his very accomplished students, a local teacher that studied with WCC for more that 20 years..
The ‘compression’ can be compared to a balloon where the opening is either full-open, nothing ‘substantial’, or.. where the air-flow is tightly controlled, but still flowing, ‘flexible resistance’ (Peng).. not so much ‘resistance’ as matching force less the proverbial “4 ounces”, or plus the same “4 ounces”.. more than 4 ounces ‘pushing’ and you reveal your own weakness, less than 4 ounces yielding and you ‘disconnect’, can’t listen.. tricky stuff, brilliantly subtle..
Be well…
I have not studied William C.C. Chen’s style of TCC, though I’d like to, and so can’t be sure but this “compression” sounds a lot like reverse breathing to me.
The way I understand it reverse breathing helps you express jing more correctly, so you use it during push hands or sparring or during an actual fight, while natural breathing helps you build chi and develop rooting, so you do that most of the time.
My understanding of this breathing pattern and its uses is limited to what I was taught in the Wu and Yang styles that I have trained, but the method you describe sounds quite similar to what I have been taught.
Bob
Yeah, it is a form of reverse breathing. I don’t like calling it that though, tends to make things more complicted than the need to be.
you know that whole “hollow punch” thing was due to Yang Lu Chan teaching Mandarin nobles who had long fingernails and so couldn’t make a tight fist, right?
I’m studying fitness right now so I have questions on this topic i haven’t even figured out yet :)… monkeys move muscles with mind… http://www.nature.com/news/2008/081015/full/news.2008.1170.html
didn’t sun lu tang talk about mental kung fu? I have to read his Hsing Yi book when I get home.
muscles that move the spine: http://www.med.nyu.edu/hjd/hjdspine/education/anatomy/musclesandligaments/muscles.html
So, some thing I’m working on in school they always tell us to sit up straight pull the shoulders back army style. many tough guys walk around with this posture in closed fist chin up waiting to get knocked out…a boxer coils when he fights, he tucks his chin. The Monkey frame in the hop gar stances I do resemble a boxer’s or a wrestler’s coil… chin tucked into shoulder, elbows guard ribs, tuck knees… give him the top of your head to punch, etc…this coiled is compression like pushing a car…what is it from a skeletal analysis?. Most people don’t compress as they walk upright so they don’t have crazy internal power, like a person in a hospital or a person who does a desk job at NASA 16 hours a day…the muscles in the center of your back is what extends the spine…not the shoulders pull back…that will get you knocked out in a fight!. I think compression is just use the center of back muscles to hyper-extend the spin while you flex the shoulders and neck into the boxer guard creating internal compression = stoked chi in the dantien, the internal oven.
or I’m drunk 
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;900347]you know that whole “hollow punch” thing was due to Yang Lu Chan teaching Mandarin nobles who had long fingernails and so couldn’t make a tight fist, right?[/QUOTE]
for real? I grew up in Canada, first time I heard that;)
Greetings..
“Closed fist” or tightly clenched fists stop the flow of energy at the area of resistance.. WCC Chen teaches hollow fist relaxed power.. the relaxed/flexible striking is very quick, it flows into the target, and continues after contact.. it has the very desirable attribute of being ‘changable’, where the clenched version is not only comitted, it’s very controllable.. not only does the clenched fist trap energy in the hands, it stops the flow in the arms which creates ‘levers’ useful in manipulating position..
Reverse Abdominable Breathing (Taoist Breathing) is the actuallity of breath in combat, normal abdominal breathing (Buddhist Breathing) creates a conflict in the energetics of dynamic combat.. the ‘expand/inhale~contract/exhale’ (Buddhist) negates the compression necessary to accelerate and amplify energy expressions.. as an example, tightly purse your lips so that very little air-flow occurs, then observe your abdomen as you force the exhale and inhale.. it will exemplify Reverse Breathing and create compression.. as it turns out, Reverse Breathing occurs naturally during combat.. to train contrary to that creates unnecessary tension..
What i notice about most Taiji players is that they have been taught ‘unnatural’ movement.. the form is useful to teach very natural principles of structure, mechanics, alignment, balance, timing and movement.. to create movements that insist on unnatural movements or contrived postures, also creates conflict within the player.. the first thing noticable in a posture or movement that has been trained in a manner not consistent with natural movement, it that it IS noticable.. it tells your partner that something is happening, it alerts them to your intentions.. natural movement, even at combat speed, is much less noticable..
We use ‘unconventional’ training methods to enhance speed, accuracy and power ‘naturally’.. for example, i will put one of those soft weighted rubber balls (3-4 lbs) on a pedestal behind the heavy bag at head height.. the object is to grab and retrieve the ball, touching the shoulder of the hand that grabs it as quickly as possible.. a great way to train the hook.. or, i stand behind the student and toss one of those balls over their head while they wait to grab it.. what this does is to eliminate the idea of conflict and train the ‘natural’ speed necessary to identify a target and move naturally to acquire it.. the students have little if any tension, and the movements are fluid and fast.. although it takes much time and practice to integrate natural movement into combative skills, the result is a magnitude greater than the tensed fighter waiting to explode into a predetermined ‘form’.. a relaxed fighter applying ‘principles’ as the situation evolves remains fluid and changes with the situation..
Be well..