the boxing lead is related to the history of fencing (and many men did BOTH)
True dat.
Daniel Mendoza, the father of scientific boxing method, had a squared off guard.
Here is a picture, he is on the left. The manuel below is some of his ideas and methods on boxing at the time.
glad you brought that up Ikfmdc
I believe that fencing, like what we call TCMA, are gentlemen arts. Yes- people got killed using them in duels, but they had rules, traditions, etc. They weren’t battlefield arts- they came from them- but they aren’t the same.
You see- fencing is for gentlemen- it has an etiquette- a protocol that is observed- a skilled man with a rapier was at a disadvantage facing a skilled brawler with a short sword and buckler.
I think what we call TCMA is like that- yes it has deadly techniques, but it has an etiquette.
I think real Jujitsu and Shuai Chaio are closer to what battlefield arts really looked like- I think we get the right lead from them cuz when I think about it, you lead with an open stance that favors your dominant hand in wrestling, judo, jiu-jitsu, sambo, shuai chaio, etc.
So it’s not the dominant lead that I’m not liking- it’s the closed gentlemen’s (fencer) stance that bugs me. I prefer a more square or open stance. It doesn’t matter if it’s right or left- but I’m starting to see that there probably is an advantage for a striker to lead with the left.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;838344]One can wonder why is it then that in pro fighting venues, you don’t see more “dominate side leads” ?[/QUOTE]
because in boxing you are more likely to be exchanging blow and having your power side back to throw more power shots , but i want to end a fight asap , not sit there an exchange, and not give them a chance to show what type of fighter they are
[QUOTE=g-bells;838468]because in boxing you are more likely to be exchanging blow and having your power side back to throw more power shots , but i want to end a fight asap , not sit there an exchange, and not give them a chance to show what type of fighter they are[/QUOTE]
Pro fighting is not just Boxing…
RE: the fencing analogy.
Having done “some” while in the homeland (Spanish School and some Italian) I was exposed to the pros and cons of the dominate side lead and, of course, taught to use both.
The FMA have the “false lead” which gives you the “best of both worlds” to an extent.
I used to drive my boxing coaches crazy cause I would switch from orthodox to south paw in the middle of a fight.
Most weapon arts advocate the dominate side lead, probably how that got into the empty hand aspect of it.
Developing solid incapaciting power form both leads is the way to go.
I have never lead with my right, my left cross is so weak. I have always lead with left in the year i have been training. my right cross is nice
[QUOTE=MightyB;838388]I believe that fencing, like what we call TCMA, are gentlemen arts. [/QUOTE]
tcma wasnt looked upon as a gentlemens art until the late 1800’s early 1900’s. before it was for the poor people. rich people had better things to do then get hit.
Based upon both my research and practical experience, it doesn’t matter which lead you use as far as “power” or “dominant” or “boxing” etc as much as “HOW DOES YOUR OPPONENT STAND?”
In boxing, the south paw is considered a “jinx” because 99% of the people fight orthodox and so a south paw is lined up “unmatched”
But going back to CMA, most fought right side forward, so all “south paws” were really “matched leads”
I don’t agree with switching because you are vulnerable in the transition. A fighting stance is like a fortress. Switching leads is like having two fortresses and running out of one to run into another. Once you get in there and lock the doors again, fine, while you’re running not so much so
Today, MOST fighters use orthodox so your chances of setting up "matched leads’ increase dramatically is you are also orthodox
From an instructor’s viewpoint, there are also reasons to run a school where everyone is “orthodox” but I won’t get into that here
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;838567]
I don’t agree with switching because you are vulnerable in the transition. [/QUOTE]
MENDOZA’S TREATISE, WITH HIS SIX LESSONS
The first principle to be established in Boxing (says he) is to be perfectly a master of the equilibrium of the body, so as to be able to change from a right to a left handed position; to advance or retreat striking or parrying; and throw the body either forward or backward without difficulty or embarrassment.
[QUOTE=the Preacher;838571]MENDOZA’S TREATISE, WITH HIS SIX LESSONS
The first principle to be established in Boxing (says he) is to be perfectly a master of the equilibrium of the body, so as to be able to change from a right to a left handed position; to advance or retreat striking or parrying; and throw the body either forward or backward without difficulty or embarrassment.
:D[/QUOTE]
Any yet, the best coaches will yell your ears off if they see you do it.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;838575]… best coaches…[/QUOTE]
???
[QUOTE=the Preacher;838577]???
:D[/QUOTE]
Dundee, Stewart, Rooney, etc, etc
Boxing has evolved “just a bit” since 1795… :rolleyes:
Imo
Ok, I haven’t seen this posted so here is my two cents.
Leading with your dominant hand puts your dominant side up front and makes it vulnerable. If you have equal ability with both sides then that’s not really a big deal HOWEVER if you are like most people your left is much more uncoordinated.
By relying solely on your right hand to block what’s coming in and attack, using the left only every now and then, you never train or improve your left hand. So what happens if you take a hard knock to your front leg or shin??? You’re automatically going to switch stance to protect your injured leg. Now what do you got in front??? The left side that you dont’ train
Protect your dominant side and use it for power.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;838579]Boxing has evolved “just a bit” since 1795… :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;838578]Dundee, Stewart, Rooney, etc, etc[/QUOTE]
those trainers are from the “Old School”
so where’s the evolution
Southpaws are harder to fight as well if you haven’t trained to fight against them.Bruce Lee was a natural right hander so it made a lot of sense for him to stand rightside forward. He wanted to shut his opponent down quickly and soon as possible.I couldn’t get a lot of fights because of my southpawness.What coach is going to put his boy in the ring that going to mess up his whole plan.It may not be so true now some 20 years later.So my plan was to fight left side then switch the last round to southpaw.(worked like a charm:D)
[QUOTE=the Preacher;838606]those trainers are from the “Old School”
so where’s the evolution[/QUOTE]
And all of them preached against “switch hitters”.
Boxing has evolved “just a bit” since 1795…
Of course.
But just so I get this right, your saying your methods are better than the man who introduced modern movement into Western Boxing and basically invented the straight left.
Interesting…
From a kungfu/self defense stand point (im not a pro sport fighter, dont plan to be) I have always been of the mindset to train both sides for each technique, and to spar from both sides. As well as changing stance when opportunities present themselves.
The couple of forms that I do practice, I do on both sides. My first kungfu teacher once told me “I teach you rigth side, you teach yourself left side”
My understanding, and from past experience, is that from a self defense stand point, you dont always have a ref to let you “square off” with your opponent. Sometimes you just get jumped and better not have a wet noodle for a left arm.
That doesnt mean to say that fighting from a constant form is not prefered in many/most situations.
[QUOTE=Black Jack II;838615]Of course.
But just so I get this right, your saying your methods are better than the man who introduced modern movement into Western Boxing and basically invented the straight left.
Interesting…[/QUOTE]
my methods? Hardly “my method”, more the method every single boxing coach in the world currently uses (and has for over 100 years), not to mention 95% of the Muay Thai coaches :rolleyes:
it seems similar to sword (axe, hammer what have you) and shield or sword and offhand (for defense / parry / counter etc.)