# Why are forms not 'Alive'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Kung Fu Forum\ **Created:** [February 4, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121 "2003-02-04T16:30:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![cogg](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/cogg/32/286_2.png) [@cogg](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/cogg)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/61 "2003-02-04T22:18:18Z")
I dont have bad teeth! ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/62 "2003-02-04T22:20:44Z")
“I dont have bad teeth!” Right! Just look at his avatar!!😛 ---
**Author:** ![KC\_Elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/848f3c/32.png) [@KC\_Elbows](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/KC_Elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/63 "2003-02-04T22:29:43Z")
I just figured out what I stepped into on this thread. Didn’t realize there was an ongoing fight with shaolin tiger.😃 Forums are so funny. ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/64 "2003-02-04T22:32:43Z")
“I just figured out what I stepped into on this thread. Didn’t realize there was an ongoing fight with shaolin tiger” He is a hard worker man! If he isn’t out training martial arts he is here training in mouth boxing! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ShaolinTiger00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@ShaolinTiger00](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ShaolinTiger00)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/65 "2003-02-04T22:33:20Z")
Aliveness = training against a fully resisting, unscripted opponent. No one trains all with aliveness. Not boxers, not muay thai-ists, not wrestlers. It’s a neat idea to try to vindicate what you do to others though. = The stupidest thing written today. I have really enjoyed most of your posts where you are discussing throwing and fighting. You definitely know what you are talking about. Thank you very much. But, I have to ask what is behind the continuous assault on cma? forms in particular. cause forms are defunct. Why can’t cma people keep doing what it is they want to do without having to defend their methods. Don’t get me wrong, having to defend your process makes you critique it and that usually makes something better. f you’re going to practice something so ridiculous and consider yourself “deadly” then you better be able to justify it! What I’m curious about is what prompted your deep seated derision of forms? [b]Because we find your ignorance to reality, practicality, sensibility, and logic, facinating You are a bug in a jar and I’m a guy with a stick prodding you to see how you react. Wait a minute!! This is how you invented the deadly style of Praying Mantis KungFu!!! consider me a founding father…[/b] Did you, have you ever learned a form? How long did you work it? Was it from someone who know what they were doing? or a hack? I’ve learned dozens of forms. (Jowbacca’s jaw dropped when I listed the Jow Ga forms that I knew). virtuallly the entire catalog. How long? - 8 years. A hack? LMAO! Hoy Lee (JowGa)and Michael Barry (Shaolin lineage to Ark Yuey Wong) are both USAWKF hall of fame members and highly respected. ---
**Author:** ![ShaolinTiger00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@ShaolinTiger00](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ShaolinTiger00)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/66 "2003-02-04T22:35:59Z")
When you only have the choice of four punches total Incorrect and flawed logic. ---
**Author:** ![KC\_Elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/848f3c/32.png) [@KC\_Elbows](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/KC_Elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/67 "2003-02-04T22:38:56Z")
This is strangely reminiscent of PeeDee.😉 ---
**Author:** ![ShaolinTiger00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@ShaolinTiger00](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ShaolinTiger00)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/68 "2003-02-04T22:42:33Z")
Amazing. My first words “FISH ON” in bold letters and you still jump right in the boat. I love you naive, sensitive, dancing \*\*\*\*\*\*\*s! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SifuAbel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sifuabel/32/45_2.png) [@SifuAbel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SifuAbel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/69 "2003-02-04T22:43:42Z")
yes both of these guys are too high on themselves. so what other punches then? ---
**Author:** ![Oso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/oso/32/63_2.png) [@Oso](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Oso)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/70 "2003-02-04T22:44:01Z")
ST00 so, you didn’t learn anything in 8 years of form work? Did that 8 years of Jow ga precede your bjj/judo/san shou work? ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Cow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/laughing_cow/32/362_2.png) [@Laughing\_Cow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Laughing_Cow)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/71 "2003-02-04T23:10:31Z")
Why aren’t forms alive?? You as the practicioner have to bring them to live? Forms are like a recipe, it is up to the cook to use that recipe to make a good dish. Naturally recipes can be modified, ingredients changed and adjusted. Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![joedoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@joedoe](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/joedoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/72 "2003-02-04T23:14:05Z")
ST We have a training tool for our forms. We call it checking. What happens is one person (the checkee) does the form. Another person (the checker) resists their movements in the form. The checker can resist with various different aims in mind - strength/power training, balance training, sensitivity training etc. Does that qualify the form as alive? ---
**Author:** ![Oso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/oso/32/63_2.png) [@Oso](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Oso)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/73 "2003-02-04T23:17:18Z")
[i]Amazing. My first words “FISH ON” in bold letters and you still jump right in the boat. I love you naive, sensitive, dancing \*\*\*\*\*\*\*s! [/i] so, I guess we got played. funny. love you too. man, I’d love to see a serious kung fu thread on this here kung fu forum. but, again, that’s just me ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Cow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/laughing_cow/32/362_2.png) [@Laughing\_Cow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Laughing_Cow)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/74 "2003-02-04T23:19:45Z")
We do something similar in TJQ for stances, and than of course there is Push-hands which trains exactly those points.😉 ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/75 "2003-02-04T23:21:39Z")
“man, I’d love to see a serious kung fu thread on this here kung fu forum.” Oso, the problem is they have split up the forums to seperate styles. Most of the martial talk on this general forum is, if not OT, about particular techniques, uses, style differences etc… ---
**Author:** ![Oso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/oso/32/63_2.png) [@Oso](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Oso)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/76 "2003-02-04T23:27:16Z")
r5a, true. But, I wouldn’t mind debating the validity of forms (obviously) but if it’s a sincere debate. IF ST00 was just trolling then I got caught, my bad not his. Trolling is silly. I don’t have that much extra time to waste here (none actually). anyway, my mother is waiting for you.😃 ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/77 "2003-02-04T23:34:49Z")
your mother has been waiting for me for a long itme 😉 I don’t think ST00 is outright trolling so much as trying to get a discussion going. He is usually pretty reasonable and pretty knowledgeable and while he shows some angst when it comes to TMA or CMA, I think he is just lookig to discuss with some of those TMA/CMA people. It just so happens that it probably gives hima few chuckles as well. ---
**Author:** ![Oso](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/oso/32/63_2.png) [@Oso](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Oso)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:41pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/78 "2003-02-04T23:41:30Z")
“your mother has been waiting for me for a long itme” if you only knew. I don’t think he’s completely trolling either. ST00 has said much of the same thing before about forms and ‘traditional’ study of ma. I am truly curious about his views. Besides simple comments of “forms are defunct” I am of course feeling a little sheepish for not getting the ‘fish on’ at the beginning of the thread. :o but that’s life ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/79 "2003-02-04T23:46:56Z")
I’d feel sheepish for being a sucker too. 😃 I too am curious as to what ST00 is all about, trying to figure it out from these threads is a pain in the as[size=2]s[/size]. ---
**Author:** ![dnc101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dnc101](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/dnc101)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121/80 "2003-02-05T01:39:43Z")
> Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00 > Amazing. My first words “FISH ON” in bold letters and you still jump right in the boat. I love you naive, sensitive, dancing \*\*\*\*\*\*\*s! 😃 and… Does anyone else think that last post was incredably ironic.? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: This was a pretty good discussion up to about that point. So, was your comment about fish intended to intimidate us into not posting, or was it a built in disclaimer for when you inevitably loose this debate?😛 [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/why-are-forms-not-alive/18121.md?page=5)