I am asking this because i have found conflicting histories on this, but most that i have read primarily say that Wong Fei Hung was the one who learned the iron wire from Tit Kiu Sam.
Another one that i heard was that Wong Fei Hung didn’t learn from Tit Kiu Sam directly but by one of his students. It is said that he learned from a Lam Fok Sing (Lin Huosheng) who was a student of Leung Gwan (Liang Gun), better known as Tit Kiu Sam.
But wouldn’t it make more sense that WFH learned from Tit Kiu Sam since they were both part of the Ten Tigers of Canton?
You are correct, Wong Fei Hung learned from Lam Fook Sing. Lam Fook Sing was Tit Kiu Sam’s most famous student as well. WFH’s father was the one to arrange for him to learn from many of the other famous masters in southern China.
One thing I am surprised about is that nobody on here has mentioned that there were two sets of “guangdong sup fu”. Wong Kay Ying and Tit Kiu Sam were part of the original 10 tigers. Wong Fei Hung was part of “siu nin guangdong sup fu”.
It is good of you to mention that there were two groups of Gwongdong Sup Fu.
Many people believe that Wong Kay Ying and Wong Fai Hung Belong to the same group of tigers we in fact,as you have stated, they were in seperated generations of tigers.
Je Lei Sifu
The southern fist defeats the fierce mountain tiger.
Hey thanks! You just helped me out a great deal. I’m trying to put together a lineage chart for my school. It’s quite a project. Our three instructors are all over the place!but all black tiger. Many thanks tigerlilly
Can anyone say where these lists are from? What was the criteria? And what is your source?
I had heard that the ten tigers was a list created by a tabloid type publication. It would be equivalent to “People Magazine’s 10 sexiest Men” or something.
Not to say that the listed people were not great but that the list is somewhat subjective. Also, I heard there were several lists, not just two.
Anyone hear this type of story or can show the list was from a more objective source?
The ten tigers were the ten most famous, best known martial artists of that time.
The lists appeared in several Chinese martial arts books, e.g. Heroes of South China. In Heroes of South China it is also stated that the name of Wong Feih Hung in the list of the “first group”(ca. 1800 - 1850) was an error.
As for Beggar Su. He learned (old) Hung Gar from Chan Fook, who probably learned from Gee Sim/Hung Hsi Kwan.
Hi all
My answer to the question :
Who Learned Tid Sin Kuen, Wong Kei Ying or Wong Fei Hung?
is
Tid Sin Kuen was learned by both Wong kei Ying and his son Wong Fei Hung. However they did not learn the famous form from Tid Kiu Sam but rather from his student Lam Fook Sing(as mentioned by Paul).
The story goes that during one of many of their journeys Wong Kei Ying and his young son Wong Fei Hung came accross a street performance where a kung fu master was displaying his skills(this was common at the time). The name of this master was Lam Fook Sing who was a student of the famous Tid Kiu Sam. During his demonstration Lam accidentally injured a bystander. Wong Kei Ying with his son offered to help and eventually treated the injuries of the bystander. Lam Fook sink was very thankfull and in return for their help he tought the iron wire form to both father and son.
As far as the Ten tigers go, i was under the impression that Wong Yan Lam (lama pai-Hop Gar) was on top of the list not Tid Kiu Sam .Tid Kiu Sam was second on the list of the original Kwungtung Sup Fu.
[This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 08-12-2000).]
Wong Yan Lam was #1 because of his successful lei tai challenge matches in Canton city (150 victories and no losses).
Tit Kiuh SAM (iron bridge THREE) was called this because of his strong forearm and strong bridge work and because he was the THIRD position in the Guang Dong Sahp Fu.
Who was #2? I don’t know actually. Sifu Frank Yee has been doing a lot of research and his students are getting good information from him every time he returns to the US. Maybe ask him?
I’m not sure who was number one, or number three, but Tit Kiu Sam was only the nickname of Leung Kwan. Leung Kwan was famous for his “iron bridge” technique, and was the third son “sam” in his family. You will notice some Chinese people have names like “yut”, “yi”, “sam”, etc.
the written transmissions of the time, that i have been able to read, lay claim to tit kiu sam as number one.(but either way, its not really important in that i am not interested in an argument on the subject, the fact that they are mentioned in the ten, states their skill levels)
tit kiu sam was also well known for his fighting skills, the claim laid due to his crossing of hands on many challenges, and like all hero’s never lost a fight.
this of coarse was increased when tit kiu sam performed his art, and on many occassions asked the spectators to try and straighten his arms out when in the kiu sau position, many tried, and it is written that none accomplished the act of straightening his arms out.
as for his name, i agree with the above, all the info i have. states that he was known as tit kiu sam, due to his skill in the kiu sau and that he was the third son in his family. this has been well documented through many years.
