# What works and what doesn't work **URL:** \ **Category:** Wing Chun\ **Tags:** wc-unrealistic-techn\ **Created:** [February 14, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702 "2013-02-14T21:09:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sihing73](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sihing73/32/33_2.png) [@Sihing73](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Sihing73)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/21 "2013-02-15T14:20:55Z")
Oh, One other thing…Wing Chun is an ecletic system…always has been. We seem to forget that today with all the arguing over what is and what is not Wing Chun. We seem to ignore the fact that the founders of WC drew on other arts to formulate the system we know today as WC. There are many variations with some families not doing forms but rather san sik, some may not even do chi sau. My point is that there is room at the table for everyone…if you allow there to be. Also, sometimes the idea of fighting is kind of pointless. Take me for example: I can tout real world experience from time in Law Enforcement or growing up in a not so great area. But it really does not matter nor does it carry over into all arenas. Since I train in Wing Chun but also train in Silat, Pekiti Tersia and now am exploring Hsing Yi as well, my approach in combat, while perhaps effective, would have some claiming that what I used was not Wing Chun. To me this argument is kind of funny since the point is to win a fight so I would prefer to use what I find works. Bottom line to me is that I want to go home at the end of the day and I really do not care how I do it. Then again, common sense goes a long way in avoiding situations where you would need to test your combat skills. Most of us live in areas where we do not need to fight our way out of the house every day…if I did then perhaps I would utilize something else…maybe a tech 9 lol. Kev you will like this 😉 Did not the great WSL warn us not to become slaves to the system? My point is that most of the online bickering we do and the posting of challengs is pointless and immature. And yes, I have done the same in my time as well so I speak from experience. I believe most of us would get along fine in person. Of course then we would not have keyboards and the net to hide behind either. ---
**Author:** ![k\_gledhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aca169/32.png) [@k\_gledhill](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/k_gledhill)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/22 "2013-02-15T14:55:05Z")
[QUOTE=Sihing73;1211638]Oh, One other thing…Wing Chun is an ecletic system…always has been. We seem to forget that today with all the arguing over what is and what is not Wing Chun. We seem to ignore the fact that the founders of WC drew on other arts to formulate the system we know today as WC. There are many variations with some families not doing forms but rather san sik, some may not even do chi sau. My point is that there is room at the table for everyone…if you allow there to be. Also, sometimes the idea of fighting is kind of pointless. Take me for example: I can tout real world experience from time in Law Enforcement or growing up in a not so great area. But it really does not matter nor does it carry over into all arenas. Since I train in Wing Chun but also train in Silat, Pekiti Tersia and now am exploring Hsing Yi as well, my approach in combat, while perhaps effective, would have some claiming that what I used was not Wing Chun. To me this argument is kind of funny since the point is to win a fight so I would prefer to use what I find works. Bottom line to me is that I want to go home at the end of the day and I really do not care how I do it. Then again, common sense goes a long way in avoiding situations where you would need to test your combat skills. Most of us live in areas where we do not need to fight our way out of the house every day…if I did then perhaps I would utilize something else…maybe a tech 9 lol. Kev you will like this 😉 Did not the great WSL warn us not to become slaves to the system? My point is that most of the online bickering we do and the posting of challengs is pointless and immature. And yes, I have done the same in my time as well so I speak from experience. I believe most of us would get along fine in person. Of course then we would not have keyboards and the net to hide behind either.[/QUOTE] CZ 75 is my choice 😉 I still use the VT methods 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jimhalliwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@jimhalliwell](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/jimhalliwell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/23 "2013-02-15T15:31:05Z")
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1211600]It was the video of Randy Williams showing techniques that I thought were unrealistic.[/QUOTE] Can we have a look at the Randy clip ! Can we have a link please Jim. ---
**Author:** ![LaRoux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LaRoux](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/LaRoux)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/24 "2013-02-15T17:40:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sihing73;1211634]Ah, the one where you were attempting to bait some members here on the forum, Joy for one as well. .[/QUOTE] I can understand how you might have thought that and felt that posting that clip in that thread was inappropriate. Would it be appropriate to make my comments on the specifics of that video in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![LaRoux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LaRoux](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/LaRoux)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/25 "2013-02-15T17:46:47Z")
[QUOTE=CRCAVA;1211630]Ok. We could do this back and forth for days… I don’t have a cute video of WC for you to examine… However I will give you a live example. I’ve been training WC with Randy Williams for a very long time and I’d be willing to fight you or any one of your friends to prove my point and let you video the event. To make it realistic lets use no set of rules, no time limits. We can do it on mats or a asphalt parking lot, I have both options for you. Also no limit on range of fighting… In CRCA WC we train standing all the way to the ground. I am 5’5, 135lbs. I am not trying to be a bad ass here, I’m not trying to threaten anyone either. I’m simply saying lets prove the point or shut this stupid thread down. If your not willing to fight then your words are either in vane or your just trying to \*\*\*\* people off. Here is the address: 694 Sharon Road King William VA 23086. This is my academy address, I am the owner and we can both sign legal waivers before the proving begins.[/QUOTE] Hi Matt, I think most people realize, if your “techniques” actually worked, you could simply post the clips online of those techniques being used in full contact situations for everyone to see instead of issuing empty tough guy internet keyboard challenges ---
**Author:** ![LaRoux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LaRoux](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/LaRoux)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/26 "2013-02-15T17:56:39Z")
[QUOTE=wingchunIan;1211608]personally I think this clip is more reflective of the alledged MT guy’s lack of ability than the alledged wing chun guy. The MT guy was tentative and lacked lateral movement. The WC guy did what we see in so many clips where the WC guy ends up getting KO’d and simply charged forward striking. I will agree though that the WC guy controlled the distance really well, took the initiative and kept up the pressure making it difficult for his opponent.[/QUOTE] So, maybe you could find just one example of a wing chun guy using his techniques against someone with ability. I find it interesting that on the few instances in which there is evidence for people using their wing chun in full contact applications, so many other wing chun guys either say they weren’t using wing chun or the other guy wasn’t very good. ---
**Author:** ![Sihing73](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sihing73/32/33_2.png) [@Sihing73](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Sihing73)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/27 "2013-02-15T17:58:15Z")
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1211667]I can understand how you might have thought that and felt that posting that clip in that thread was inappropriate. Would it be appropriate to make my comments on the specifics of that video in this thread?[/QUOTE] Absolutely, as long as it does not degrade into chest beating and name calling. We have far too much of that here already 😉 I find that a sprited discussion is a good thing. Even when I do not agree I sometimes learn something or get a new perspective. Then again those who know me will attest to my stubborn streak. 😃 I often will make a technique work just by wearing the opponent down. They are better but I stay in there longer…kind of like my last marriage :o ---
**Author:** ![LaRoux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LaRoux](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/LaRoux)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/28 "2013-02-15T18:53:02Z")
[QUOTE=Sihing73;1211679]Absolutely, as long as it does not degrade into chest beating and name calling.[/QUOTE] OK, thanks. This clip is what I consider to be a good example of many of the techniques that I consider to be unrealistic. [Clip showing mostly unrealistic techniques.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jni2eIdGwzk) Since I think the majority of them won’t work, I will focus instead on the few I believe could be pulled off. 1:14 the blocked punch 1:38 the head butt (although, you’d need to get there in a much more realistic manner than what was shown in that clip) 2:05 the guillotine choke (although the set up to that was unrealistic) 3:45 the parry of the jab 9:47 stepping off line of the roundhouse kick followed by the inside thigh kick Other than those, most of the techniques shown there are not going to be functional in full contact application. ---
**Author:** ![jimhalliwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@jimhalliwell](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/jimhalliwell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/29 "2013-02-15T19:19:32Z")
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1211708]OK, thanks. This clip is what I consider to be a good example of many of the techniques that I consider to be unrealistic. [Clip showing mostly unrealistic techniques.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jni2eIdGwzk) Since I think the majority of them won’t work, I will focus instead on the few I believe could be pulled off. 1:14 the blocked punch 1:38 the head butt (although, you’d need to get there in a much more realistic manner than what was shown in that clip) 2:05 the guillotine choke (although the set up to that was unrealistic) 3:45 the parry of the jab 9:47 stepping off line of the roundhouse kick followed by the inside thigh kick Other than those, most of the techniques shown there are not going to be functional in full contact application.[/QUOTE] Hi I think all this work that Randy is doing in the vid would work really well as long as the guy your fighting has one arm! In my opinion its just not practical and no use at all. I just cant imagine doing a Bong against that Jab the following punches would take your teeth out.In my opinion this \*\*\*\* will get you hurt in a real situation! if you want to visit fantasy island for a while then enjoy! Ask yourself could you use these techniques in a street fight? for me the answer is no. Jim. ---
**Author:** ![Robinhood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Robinhood](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Robinhood)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/30 "2013-02-15T19:31:47Z")
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1211708]OK, thanks. This clip is what I consider to be a good example of many of the techniques that I consider to be unrealistic. [Clip showing mostly unrealistic techniques.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jni2eIdGwzk) Since I think the majority of them won’t work, I will focus instead on the few I believe could be pulled off. 1:14 the blocked punch 1:38 the head butt (although, you’d need to get there in a much more realistic manner than what was shown in that clip) 2:05 the guillotine choke (although the set up to that was unrealistic) 3:45 the parry of the jab 9:47 stepping off line of the roundhouse kick followed by the inside thigh kick Other than those, most of the techniques shown there are not going to be functional in full contact application.[/QUOTE] I couldn’t even watch more than a couple minutes of that. Wow, no wonder wc is always getting slammed. ---
**Author:** ![LaRoux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LaRoux](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/LaRoux)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/31 "2013-02-15T19:32:29Z")
[QUOTE=jimhalliwell;1211711]Hi I think all this work that Randy is doing in the vid would work really well as long as the guy your fighting has one arm! In my opinion its just not practical and no use at all. I just cant imagine doing a Bong against that Jab the following punches would take your teeth out.In my opinion this \*\*\*\* will get you hurt! in a real situation if you want to visit fantasy island for a while then enjoy! Jim.[/QUOTE] There are many examples of a bong type motion being used successfully to block or redirect strikes. The movement in that video is much like the instinctive flinch response that naturally comes out in full contact settings. I think that is one of the few techs there that actually would have a chance of working. The follow up after that motion is where the fantasy starts to set in. ---
**Author:** ![jimhalliwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@jimhalliwell](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/jimhalliwell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/32 "2013-02-15T19:36:06Z")
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1211714]There are many examples of a bong type motion being used successfully to block or redirect strikes. The movement in that video is much like the instinctive flinch response that naturally comes out in full contact settings. I think that is one of the few techs there that actually would have a chance of working.[/QUOTE] There may be examples but answer this why did Randy not punch the guy that was throwing a punch at him??? no instead he throws a negative bong at him instead! bet that hurt him. Jim. ---
**Author:** ![LaRoux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LaRoux](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/LaRoux)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/33 "2013-02-15T19:39:09Z")
[QUOTE=jimhalliwell;1211715]There may be examples but answer this why did Randy not punch the guy that was throwing a punch at him???.[/QUOTE] There’s nothing wrong with a purely defensive technique. Not every punch is best answered with another punch. Sometimes the best answer is to be be defensive. There are hundreds of thousands of examples (more than likely millions) of this principle being used over the years in all types of settings. ---
**Author:** ![Robinhood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Robinhood](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Robinhood)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/34 "2013-02-15T19:40:32Z")
[QUOTE=jimhalliwell;1211715]There may be examples but answer this why did Randy not punch the guy that was throwing a punch at him??? no instead he throws a negative bong at him instead! bet that hurt him. Jim.[/QUOTE] Yes, not really an efficient use of bong, only a delay of action . ---
**Author:** ![jimhalliwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@jimhalliwell](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/jimhalliwell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/35 "2013-02-15T19:41:39Z")
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1211717]Not every punch is best answered with another punch. Sometimes the best answer is to be be defensive. There are hundreds of thousands of examples (more than likely millions) of this principle being used over the years in all types of settings.[/QUOTE] Hi No its not!the best answer imo of course is not to be defensive. The best defensive action for me is to attack his attack and remove his teeth! this tends to stop his attack. Jim ---
**Author:** ![LaRoux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LaRoux](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/LaRoux)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/36 "2013-02-15T19:44:35Z")
[QUOTE=jimhalliwell;1211719]Hi No its not!the best answer imo of course is not to be defensive. The best defensive action for me is to attack his attack and remove his teeth! this tends to stop his attack. Jim[/QUOTE] If you don’t have defense, you are missing half the tools. Again, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of examples of how having defense is important. ---
**Author:** ![jimhalliwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@jimhalliwell](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/jimhalliwell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/37 "2013-02-15T19:45:59Z")
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1211720]If you don’t have defense, you are missing half the tools. Again, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of examples of how having defense is important.[/QUOTE] Hi Yes I have defense i operate through training with my centre closed so I can concentrate on my attack! Cheers Jim. ---
**Author:** ![Robinhood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Robinhood](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Robinhood)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/38 "2013-02-15T19:52:08Z")
[QUOTE=jimhalliwell;1211719]Hi No its not!the best answer imo of course is not to be defensive. The best defensive action for me is to attack his attack and remove his teeth! this tends to stop his attack. Jim[/QUOTE] In your dreams it probably works great. Now back to reality, wakeup. ---
**Author:** ![LaRoux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@LaRoux](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/LaRoux)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/39 "2013-02-15T19:55:33Z")
[QUOTE=jimhalliwell;1211722]Hi Yes I have defense i operate through training with my centre closed so I can concentrate on my attack! Cheers Jim.[/QUOTE] The problem with that approach is when you come across someone with a better attack and then you’ve go no other defensive skills to fall back on. ---
**Author:** ![jimhalliwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@jimhalliwell](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/jimhalliwell)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702/40 "2013-02-15T20:06:13Z")
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1211723]In your dreams it probably works great. Now back to reality, wakeup.[/QUOTE] Ok so i best start getting my bong ready to block long range punches then! lol Jim [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/what-works-and-what-doesnt-work/54702.md?page=3)