What the grapplers think of us

In some ways I am on the fence on this issue. On the one hand you do have alot of wannabe or neverwas CMA players bringing really stupid techniques to the table. On the other hand you have the same amount of Grapple players that can’t see beyond their system either. So if something is inovative they don’t see it working in their paradigm(this is pronounced pa-ra-dime, not pa-ra-dig-um).

I, for one, am really sick and tired of reading the stupid dim mak and neck strike posts. CMA students please STOP mentioning this. There is so much more about CMA that can’t be said because it has to wade through all this drivel. Most striking Kung fu is about controling and maintaining a perimeter. Lets talk about that instead.

The other thing that kills me here is exactly WHY they give a **** at all. The whole thread was a giant self patting on the back. If we are so lowly then why are they giving it a second thought. And, before you answer, keep in mind the thread was filled with only a handfull of people. It was, for the most part the rant of just a few.

I totally agreee on the magazine statement. Lately the magazines have been on a monk fetish. You see the technique articles here and there. Few and far between. And sometimes they aren’t any good. Which brings me to this next comment. The magazines are seemingly trying to keep chinese martial arts very, for lack of a better word, Chinese. The non asian features are only token in comparison. There are so few non asian CMA players in this country? Not to knock the chinese at all. This is where the our arts came from. But, I think at this point it has grown larger than one country or one people.

SifuAbel:

Most striking Kung fu is about controling and maintaining a perimeter. Lets talk about that instead.

Brilliant observation w/regards to fight strategy here.

Stop being reasonable and making sense, ******!!!. :smiley:

SA - Completely agree. The “Chin Na” and “Neck Strike” thing seems to be the CMA dummy’s stock responce to the BJJ dummy’s stock “I’d just go for the double leg…”

At the end of the day, it’s just dumb CMA people VS dumb BJJ people on that article.

Anyone with a modicum of sense knows that it’s not ever that simple, and that style-style arguments are futile. It’s all to do with the individual.

controlling and maintaining a perimeter. Lets talk about that instead.

Exactly. Conceptual :slight_smile:

People on either side who say “You can’t defend against ____” p!ss me off. Whwther it’s a BJJ takcle or a Kung Fu pressure point KO. It doesn’t work like that. A “neck strike” might not bother Ryu, but might have MPS crying like a girl… :smiley:

Man this board is WAY above the level of CyberKwoon :stuck_out_tongue:

Dre, your attitude is a barrier to learning, you are basically prejudiced against anyone who studies BJJ - do you believe in racism/sexism/stereotyping?

If you don’t, why are you applying the same logic to BJJers?

And some of the people on Cyberkwoon are worthy of taking the ****.

Hmmm, lets see, takedown defense: - Donkey kick to the face. (kicking with both feet out of a hand-stand).

Y’know, it might just work…

The guys on that thread were taking the **** out of the Cyberkwoon guys. Not us.

In fact one of them stated that KFO was no fun anymore because we had been ‘educated’ by Merry.

Not ‘converted’- if their problem was with Kungfu itself then they would be here in OUR face. But they recognise that although most of the people on this board do Kungfu we are aware of the dangers of grappling and do address them. So they have no problem with us. Because most of us, although we do something different, respect their art.

Y’see, there is no point coming on here and talking crap, becuase on here (most) people would say:

“Last year called, wants its thread back.
I am well aware of the danger that grappling presents and I have trained or plan to train regularly with grapplers and practiced my takedown defense/groundfighting, what you are saying is nothing new to me.”

On Cyberkwoon they go:

“Grappling is not a problem to me, I will simply pull a handstand and kick you in the face, or (my favourite) drop to my knees and punch you hard in the nose.”

That is the attitude that they have a problem with.

WARNING: TINPOT PSYCHOLOGY COMING UP:

Everyone wants respect for their art. Everyone desires (not needs) respect for what they do.

Kungfu men want grapplers to say “hey, what you’re doing is cool, I need to figure some way of taking care of you with what i do”

and grapplers want kungfu men to say “I think what you’re doing looks pretty dangerous, so I better figure out some defense for that.”

On KFO, we have done that, we have acknowledged grappling’s threat to us and taken measures to nullify it as much as we can. So the grapplers are happy, what they do has been acknowledged and respected.

On CK, the guys on there are like “grappling sucks! no way they could beat me or take me down!” so the grapplers are p!ssed that their art gets no respect for being “good” and go on there and try to make their point.

Does anybody see what I’m rattling on about?

Sorry about this post…

:slight_smile:

Are you referring to my onrunning comment made less than 5 minutes ago on this thread of:

Man this board is WAY above the level of CyberKwoon

:stuck_out_tongue: :smiley: Thanks for elaborating for me…

Of course I’m in agreement. It’s true. MPS and Ryu have actually brought a lot of sense to this board. I’d give myself credit as a Judo guy but no-one would recognise it… :mad: :stuck_out_tongue:

:smiley:

Neck strikes typically don’t faze me.

However, when people start making fun of my big ears and Neanderthal like brow ridge (not a joke) I usually get my feelings hurt and that takes all the p!ss right out of me…

Scotty, At the risk of trumpeting my own horn, I think you’ll find it thus:

CMA’ers are tired of chest thumping grapplers/MMAers who insist on ‘proving’ things in the ring–tough guy posturing.

MMA’ers/grapplers are tired of CMA elitism and snobbery.

They are both forms of arrogance, of course.

big ears

Anti-Tackle Handles?

Something like that :slight_smile:

Here are a couple of pictures of my Cro-Magnon Skull:

I’m the guy on bottom with the receding hairline

Same thing here :slight_smile:

And yet again-- I didn’t realize how much hair I’ve lost, D@mnit!!

Re: Tai Chi

Originally posted by Cableguy
[B]Our Tai Chi club does quite well against the grapplers and any other MMA practitioners.

Our breathing techniques alone are usually enough to wear out any grappler as long as we don’t let our limbs get caught. [/B]

picture a tai chi club in a tree eating garlic

Man, looking at those pictures I totally don’t understand BJJ.

You’re lying on your back with your legs in the air yeah? That’s “the Guard” right? So in that first picture, isn’t the guy on the top the one with the advantage? He can hit you, grab your leg, break your knee, stand up etc. You can kick him in the face, but he’s the one with mobility.

I don’t understand what you’re trying to accomplish on your back with your legs round the guy.:slight_smile: I’m not being funny either, I can’t see what the goal of that position is.

A brief run down of what the hell is going on in those pics would be cool.

Note: I’m not baggin on BJJ, just trying to understand it.

In the first pic, I have hold of both his arms and my feet are in his hips. My shins are pressing outwards on his arms near the elbow and I am pulling his arms in. This immobilizes his arms for one, and allows me to actually control his movements very effectively. If he just tries to stand up, he’s going to wind up on his back. If he tries to crush me forward, he’ll wind up on his back. Since I have control of his arms, he can’t punch me. He’s actually controlled.

In the second picture, I have my left foot in his hip and my right foot is solidly in his bicep. By pulling tight on his arm and maintaining even pressure with my right foot, I can manipulate his balance and posture very easily—as though he were a puppet on a string. Same issue as above.

In the third picture, I was armbarring the guy, and he had a standard defense in to keep me from extending the arm.

Cool. So once he’s controllable, what do you do with him?
How do you end up in a victorious position from the guard?
Can you ‘win’ from the guard?
How can he beat you when you’ve pulled guard, what does he have to do?

Sorry for all the questions, but I have no idea what BJJ even looks like. Comes from coming from England I guess. BJJ is pretty much only available in big cities.

From the guard, you can sweep the opponent to come up on top.

You can also submit the opponent with a variety of locks and chokes.

In rare instances, you can take somebody’s back from the guard.

So yes, you can win from the guard.

In order to beat me, he needs to create an opening for a leg lock or pass my guard (get by my legs) so he can apply a submission. Certain submissions can be done from inside the guard, but these are generally considered low percentage, unless you are freakishly strong/talented (Mark Kerr’s neck-crank, for instance). Going for an upper body submission from inside the guard generally results in getting swept or submitted yourself. It’s hard to get proper leverage on the submission without leaving your balance open to easy manipulation.

Right. Thanks for explaining, but I think its the type of thing that really needs to be seen/experienced to be understood!

Hey Merry!

You say you look nehandertal?..I would rather say “australopithecus”…:wink: :smiley:
Nice pics but you should pick on guys your own size! :wink: I have to say, BJJ looks like fun.Happy training!:slight_smile:

“I have to say, BJJ looks like fun”

Yeah it does.

Flame away.:slight_smile:

The other guy in the white gi is one of the top purples in the nation. The dude in the blue gi is heavier than me :slight_smile:

And it IS fun :slight_smile:

Originally posted by scotty1

I don’t understand what you’re trying to accomplish on your back with your legs round the guy.:slight_smile: I’m not being funny either, I can’t see what the goal of that position is.

Another obvious answer is it’s much better to have
the guard than to be mounted, cross bodied, have knee to the
stomach, etc.

more seriously!

I look at the second pic and I feel you could be going for a triangle…I’m I right?
The third seems to me like a armbar occasion…I try to understand this style and it,s possibility’s.

OK…I will sound very uneducated, and I’m not intending a flame war about something I don’t know…
Here’s my point: I know NO grappling other than the intuitive one…there is something I do not quite get…when I roll with guys doing grappling (it does not happen that often, but I don’t want to die a complete idiot heheheh), I’m quite fascinated by the principles and techniques involved. You get tapped out and don’t even realize how it happened (at least I do hehehe). But I have problems with grappling’s “statut quo” situations, like being in the guard…why? because for me there are no moves I wouldn’t try in a fight…let me explain…I sometimes happened to end up in the position described by the first two pics…indeed, it’s great, very frustrating, you can’t move and hit…BUT here comes the BUT: I managed to go out of that quite often by just grabbing the guys balls, or even showing I coul bite them…don’t ewwwwww me or whatever: when I fight, I try everything…I once got out of a bear hug by biting the guy’s throat and ears…I don’t care, when I fight I can bite and scratch…here’s my point: when I pressed his balls or went to bite them, he pushed me back off violently and gave me a puzzled look like “you’re crazy” or “you’re gay” or whatever…I had no other options in mind (since I don’t know shi@t aboud elbow evades other than what Ralek describes hehehehehe or whatever), I was like a trapped animal and did what I could: find a sensitive target I could reach…he told me “are you crazy?? you just can’t do that!!”…EXCUSE ME? Yeah, maybe in a tournament I can’t, but in a fight I’m sorry, I’m going for what I can, even if it involves far-from-glorious things like hair or ear-pulling, scratching, biting. I played with tha trying to pull it off as often as I could, until the guy said he wouldn’t roll with me anymore, with a shocked expression…
My overall point is this: there is no safe position on the ground either…the guard might be safe, when you rule out things like biting the nads and crushing them, or pulling the ears, or stupid things like that that are not so stupid and overlooked too often…but in my attempts, even if I couldn’t always pull the move, I nevertheless was able to pull such a sucker stuff too often for comfort…
Grapplers need to realize that in a fight they are as much exposed to the danger of a sucker technique than we are as CMA practicionners exposed to the danger of going to the ground and being toyed with there. I guess as many of them think they are safe here as we do think we won’t be taken down…and we’re both wrong…
A fight is always dangerous, a street fight, that is, and even a killer in the ring can be taken by surprise and go down…I know, I know, it’s a big ass stereotype we heard like 1000000000 times.
But still, we should always remember it, whether we are CMA, grapplers, MMA…
in a fight, nothing makes you 100% safe.

I wanted to add a more personal contribution to that topic. I didn’t intended it to start a flame war (as most of you understood, since there is no war hehehehehe), but rather as the consequence of a big “man, this is so stupid, I have to share it with the KFO guys” kind of reaction. I’m kind of disapointed that the thread I started and got the most responses to ever was the only grappling thread I ever dared, but hey, that’s life
:smiley:
Take care, my friends, and thanks for your reactions!!