What is the most prevalent injury in Martial arts, And what system do you train in??

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Training and Health
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[QUOTE=Skip J.;958387]And a week or two back you told me about the boulder running with swords on the post about mountain running on the “this months issue” thread…[/quote]ahhh… here just like two or three days ago, i was using a sorry flat shovel and the shovel head flew off, which smashed my toes on my left foot. LOL… wipes forehead i was beginning to get a little weirded out there for a second. :smiley:

I still need to start a thread over in the taiji forum about State Park training for taiji… maybe I’ll take my camera and write Gene an article…
if i lived in texas like you, i would go off and find me some peyote buttons and then i’d mash them together with water to make a potent drink… i would then go off into the spirit world for awhile… explore some new forms, discover some new possibilities. some of the most intense practice comes when i have eaten some magical mushrooms… i have yet to experience the mighty peyote. :slight_smile:

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more threadjack…

[QUOTE=uki;958389]if i lived in texas like you, i would go off and find me some peyote buttons and then i’d mash them together with water to make a potent drink… i would then go off into the spirit world for awhile… explore some new forms, discover some new possibilities. some of the most intense practice comes when i have eaten some magical mushrooms… i have yet to experience the mighty peyote. :)[/QUOTE]
Hmmnn.. well, before I got married I probably thought the same thing myself… but it’s been a long time since 1967 and I can’t really remember the details like I used to… my heads’ fulla CMA stuff here lately.

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Knee

[QUOTE=Lucas;958335]a link from another thread.

Bas on his knees[/QUOTE]

Anyone out there know if continuing to train in Traditional Martial Arts Kung-Fu trainig while both knees are so bad , that 2 Orthopedic Surgeons diagnoised\Total Knee Replacements 4 years ago?

I love Stance Training and Forms…but the pain and loss of flexibility is so brutal,
it makes it hard to be consistant in my training.

Any hope? Ideas?

Thanks
JDK

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ouch. thats a tough situation. unfortunately i dont really have much help for you on that one. :frowning:

the only suggestion/question i would pose is that, out of the stance and form training that you enjoy, is it possible/make a difference, if you adjust the sets/stances to a more comfortable level of depth for your knees?

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i just got my first martial arts injury.

my knee

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many knee injuries come from not being connected with your body-mentally. Not knowing your limitations, not feeling yorself go through the movement, and another big thing-kicking air. When doing line drills, shadowboxing, etc, everyone wants to thrust those kicks out like a rocket, and hear their pants crack like a whip, make the air pop, etc. But, when you are hitting the air with force, the only thing stopping your leg is thr wrenching and tearing of tendon, ligament, and tissue.

According to statictics provided by/for insurance companies, When Aikido was big, it led in injuries to head, neck, spine and joints.
Now, it’s MMA=particularly BJJ. BJJ’s target market is males-17-30-macho, testosterone junkies. Now we are seeing alot more elobow injuries from 'Not tapping out fast enough"-which means the other guy was an azole, and an increase in injuries to the neck, spine, etc.
MMA is here to stay-but that means as with all Martial Arts-unqualified instructors, teaching poorly supervised classes, with way too many meatheads, which equals injuries.

Add kettlebells and other weight bearing exercises into the mix, and watch the stats grow.

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My way of thinking tells me that you should do what the body can do naturally without going into a great deal of conditioning and stretching. Not stuff that you have to do most every day to be able to keep it. By that, I mean just look at the way the body functions. Walking, running, jumping, and then kicking. We can step up pretty high without pulling things apart in your legs and hips. So kicking forward with the heel is somewhat natural in function. A side kick that is not more than about waist high is not too far from natural. But low to mid range kicks can be done with very little to no damage to a knee or hip joint. And you can still do these kicks as you age. I never attempt to throw a kick at full power like I think Tigers said. It sort of tries to hyperextend the knees sometimes. A missed kick can ge injurous to your knees. When kicking forward this way, you seldom fully extend the leg so this is less of a danger. Side kicking can extend the leg fully, so you have to be aware of this too.
I think that if you train something that the body can do naturally, you have a greater ability to achieve high skill with it. It may not look as dramatic as a high jumping kick or some such, but it has a higher degree of success and is less likely to injure both you and your adversary at the same time.

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Does anyone have any experience with continuing to train with severe arthritis in both knees?

Short of Knee Replacements…I have no way to strengthen my legs currently,…except by working through immense pain.

Would Stance Training be advisable ?

thanks

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the most prevalent injury in Martial arts

brain damage.

case and point: this forum.

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Hi JKD,

I had an employment situation in the past that required excessive standing. It jacked my knees up so badly that squatting down to pick up something was PAINFUL. I really thought I was finished with MA training…a real depressing thought at the time. Well something guided me to do hamstring strengthening. Doing so helped correct the imbalance between my hamstrings and quad and helped stabilize my knees.

Try doing some hamstring curls and see if that will help you out. If you notice improvement, take it as a sign for you to revamp your leg training (do not neglect the tibialis anterior-- see link).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYWffp98XWs

Nutritional Support: MSM, Rose Hips (anti inflammatory), Water (very important), Fresh Green Vegetables. Research these things before trying. Take a look at your kidney health.

mickey

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just thought I’d add: hyperextending the knee for ex: by not bringing in high enough for a front kick, you bring your knee up to the waist and kick chest high, two things happen; 1-your kick trajectory changes and the kick doesn’t penetrate, but goes upward, and 2- the knee hyperextends.
I train my beginners to kick over a bench or the Lion drum.

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i find doing air snap kicks really fuk up my legs.

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Knees and elbows–sprains etc. I’ve seen knees twisted and torn from bad stances and movement. like turning on your heel and not the ball of your foot --with elbows its generally hyperextended throwing incorrect punches and strikes. Kempo.

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i sprain my pinkie knuckle many times for doing sloppy hooks on bags when i get tired. also when i was a kid i pulled my legs seveal times doing air snap kicks.

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[QUOTE=mickey;1075823]Hi JKD,

I had an employment situation in the past that required excessive standing. It jacked my knees up so badly that squatting down to pick up something was PAINFUL. I really thought I was finished with MA training…a real depressing thought at the time. Well something guided me to do hamstring strengthening. Doing so helped correct the imbalance between my hamstrings and quad and helped stabilize my knees.
Try doing some hamstring curls and see if that will help you out. If you notice improvement, take it as a sign for you to revamp your leg training (do not neglect the tibialis anterior-- see link).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYWffp98XWs
Nutritional Support: MSM, Rose Hips (anti inflammatory), Water (very important), Fresh Green Vegetables. Research these things before trying. Take a look at your kidney health.

mickey[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the advice…I will try and concentrate on Hamstrings and Quad exercises at my Health Club.
I have been putting off getting knee replacements for a couple of years now, for a variety of reasons…even though that seems to be the advice of most.
I just hate the thought of having artificial parts in the bones of both legs.
I also have been told that great care must be taken to not over -stress the new knees , as the parts can become loose and require another , more difficult operation that has a much lower chance of success. ( With knee replacements you cannot Squat low…run…put much weight on them, or practice and spinning, jolting, or twisting movements)
That means that practicing Martial Arts as I have learned them…would be over.

Plus…some things the Doctors dont like to emphasis to their patients is the fact that Knee Replacements are ALWAYS prone to infection…and that antibiotics are recommended anytime you have something as simple as a Dental Appointment ! The Body never truley works the same again after the artificial parts are inserted into the joint.
Risks for any surgery are:

Breathing problems
Infection, including in the lungs, urinary tract, and chest
Bleeding
Heart attack or stroke during surgery
Dislocation of the artificial joint
Infection that requires removing the joint
Loosening of the artificial joint over time
Pneumonia
Allergic reaction to the artificial joint
Injury to nerves or blood vessels
Blood clots that may form in your leg (deep vein thrombosis) or your lungs (pulmonary embolism)

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002974.htm

Of course the pain and lack of mobility I experience now has drastically lowered my standard of life, and prevents me from doing many of these things anyways....so I guess I am looking for good options  where there are not any.

And BTW…It is not just “sore” knees I sufer with…they have been bone on bone for several years now…have begun to bow slightly outward…and the pain while walking and standing is substantial.

Just was hoping someone had worked their way through this with a training regiment that would allow me to avoid surgery.

Thanks again

                JDK
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Hi JKD,

Bone on bone is tough. I don’t know if my suggestions will prove helpful to you. I hope you will find a healthy solution for your situation.

mickey

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The more you use a machine, the fatser it will wear out.
If you do not use a machine, it will seize up from disuse.

You are in fact a machine. Biomechanical as it may be, but the rules of existence apply to all of us. :slight_smile:

find balance.

too much training is simply no good.

not enough is equally as bad.

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Been training/teaching for 34 years now and no real damage to me from the KF.
Many injuries from the work i do.. masonry and concrete have taken there toll, just got a new hip and one day will need a new knee lol.

The way i see it if I didn’t do KF i would be in WAY sorry shape.
Keep training no matter what comes along.

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[QUOTE=md1;1076344]Been training/teaching for 34 years now and no real damage to me from the KF.
Many injuries from the work i do.. masonry and concrete have taken there toll, just got a new hip and one day will need a new knee lol.

The way i see it if I didn’t do KF i would be in WAY sorry shape.
Keep training no matter what comes along.[/QUOTE]

Yes Md1…the arthritis is inherited most likely, not from a result of training or other sports I have played over my life.
The simple fact is the body does eventually wears out.
Many of us have some type genetic predisposition to certain illnesses and conditions.

I firmly agree with you in continuing to train no matter what.
I have been blessed with great health over my lifetime…no doubt in part to keeping physically active and knowing how to avoid illness. ( Much of which I learned from Chinese Medicine)

Maybe I should rephrase my question and ask if anyone out there has had knee replacements…and continue to train ?

JDK

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Like I said, I had my hip replaced and it was the best thing i ever did… I workout and feel like i’m 25 again. I will need my one knee replaced with in the next year or two and I will not hesitate to get it done.
Yes I also have a friend who had both is knees replaced about 10 years back and he continues to practice his KF to this day. he is 68 years old now.

The pain and lack of movement from arthritis is nothing like any pain i have ever had and after going throught one joint replacement I have NO problem at all going throught it again.