What is tao Te Ching?? Book of changes?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
21

yes, i have read and still refer to Sun tzu’s classic “the art of war”.

and yes, I agree that it is yet another guide for living.
It’s strategems apply to everything from how to fight a battle in actuality to how to win a battle in a more metaphorical way.

It’s teachings deal with how the outcome can be in your favour by considering the ramifications of your actions or inaction in a given situation once again.

It has more detail than Musashi’s book of five rings which is definitively more adapted to the martial artist. The art of war is more nebulous and it’s principles and lessons carry across to many other areas of ones life. Particularly in regards to how one does business moreso than how one maintains and retains relationships they favour.

Another ancient text well worth reviewing is teh Tibetan book of the dead also known as the Bardo Thodol. This book is a remarkable study on how one should live their life according to how one prepares for their own death.

The commonality in all these books: The I Ching, The Tao Te Ching, The Art of War and the Bardo Thodol is that one has to recognize with equality their falabilities as well as their strengths.

They teach us that our strengths are often our weaknesses as well. They teach us of the duality of life and the impermanance of worldy trappings and life itself while at the same time touching on the eternalness of this cycle.

Many great life lessons are to be had from these books as well as many more that are from other cultures and other periods of time.
Reading them and absorbing their offerings will bring epiphany to the reader quite often and life changes can occur so long as one can see the forest for the trees so to speak.

In context to the martial artist and martial virtue as well as holding a martial mind, these books are an invaluable resource and one would be remiss to disclude them from their holistic training in the martial arts. They contain a great many keys to how one can practice and maintain their knowledge and abilty to disseminate that knowledge clearly to others via direct transmission from one to another.

peace

22

Tao Te Ching

Someone earlier referred to what they thought was the best translation of this Toaist text was a Chinese to German and then German to English version. I take it you were referring to the Richard Wilhem translation? I think that his translation is very below par, and many other (both chinese and western academics) people have agreed upon it as it, like a lot of his work, is truncated, mis-translated and thoroughly biased to his devoutly christian background. I know this sounds like a more than obvious assault upon the man and his works, but when it comes to the intricacies of the Tao Te Ching and the subtle methodology containbed therein, Wilhelm manages to miss a lot of it, just look at his translation of “The Secret of the Golden Flower”. He made a right pig’s ear of that. So I too will be biased in saying that I feel the most credible translation of the Tao Te Ching to the the western language most certainly has to by Thomas Cleary. I mean is has many years of practical experience ion what he has translated where as Wilhelm at most was an arm chair philosopher when ti cam eto Eastern philosophy.

23

Repulsive Monkey - that sounds logical, thx

all -
One thing that I learned from the book of 5 rings is “too drive your opponent backwards, into a tree, slippy area” Ie. : to push someone into eacother, into a hole or something. I use this all the time when sparring and play-fighting. Works great! (fun too) :smiley:

24

Repulsive monkey-

I am not referring to any particular author when speaking of chinese-german-english translations.

I am refering to syntactical structure of language.

English is so far removed in this case that for the most part the best tranlations of Chinese are from german first, then to english.

There are several versions of the Tao Te Ching, the I Ching and other classics.

Itr is also worthy of note that for the most part, Chinese Language is best read as Chinese Language as it translates poorly into any western language and it is probably in the best interest of the curious scholar to learn Chinese first, then read the texts. :smiley:

Otherwise, Scholars will be scholars and will debate endlessly about anything as scholars are wont to do, hahahaha.

I must also add that I don’t think the Wilhelm translation of the I Ching is that bad at all, it is considered one of the best from where I have read regarding the alternate translation sources.

I have a “Taoist” I Ching that has a completely different translation from the older chinese-german-english version also and it is not quite as in depth as the german-english version.

As for the Tao Te Ching, I haven’t read Wilhelms version.

Are you speaking of the “Changes of Chou” in regards to wilhelms translations?

peace

25

Speaking of bias…

I agree with Repulsive Monkey that it doesn’t make sense and not worth the effort to study Hindu, Buddhist and Taoist texts in the manner of studying the scripture. There is a world of difference btween acadamic pursuits and spiritual pursuits. I actually don’t believe I have just said that :wink: I must be getting old or something. :smiley:

Mantis108

26

The tao is looking within. All of what could ever be written by Lao Tzu or any Taoist could be experienced without ever setting eyes upon his writings. They are just a guide, a bible, a instruction manual, a direction, a focus, or anything you make them to be. Any writing that you use to better yourself is merely a tool that you, the creator of yourself, used to manipulate your perspective, to adjust your attitude, to alter your state of mind.

When you decide to walk the path of self-realization, the path is completely designed by you. Obstacles will arise, and you can choose to face them or stop walking. You make your life as simple or as complicated as you want it to be.

Perhaps one of the reasons the Tao Te Ching was written was because Lao Tzu knew that when a person decided to truly discover who they are, that they would be dealing with a nearly impossible journey of self-discovery. The tao te ching can be used to aid in that journey, when you feel astray, or when you are needing inspiration, and as I said above, clearly for any reason you want it to be, or justification that you feel you need to make for yourself.

Those who walk the path to understanding who they are will deal with more difficulty then had they never chosen to walk that path at all. The reason this occurs is because when someone makes this choice, everyone around them tries to stop them from being successful. This is due to the fact that most people never do what they truly want to do in life, and never live out their true potential, and by seeing you doing just that, it creates a hatred and an envy towards you. You will be called a fool for doing what it is you truly want to do in life, and most people will try and tell you how it is that you should live your life, and exactly what it is that you need to change. People will attempt to do anything that they can to lead you astray. That is why it takes a lot of willpower and pride in yourself to walk the path, and those only come with practice, patience, dilligence, focus and so on.

Enjoy your awakening, and embrace your awareness.

27

Kung Lek and Mantis

Thanks for the input.

Thinking on the lines of unifing Einstein’s theorys,Quantum physics

and the Super string theory and how they fit in with the idea(or way,or thought,or concept) of the Tao.

Einstein’s Unified field theory concept is synonymos with the TOE,better known as the Theory of everything.

I think its neat to see some of today’s top minds untertwining
their theorys with text that was written a long time ago.

28

Hi tnwingtsun,

No sweat, my friend. I hear you. We might end up confusing the guy if we start off with the remarkable parallel between modern physics and eastern mystericism. Beside not a lot of people are convinced that there might just be such a parallel. If it is within his karma then he shall find the answer. Anyway, great point that you brought up.

Mantis108

29

Im not really good with physics or Einsteins theory. Anyone care to point out those similarities?

30

Hi Kristoffer,

Try “The Tao of Physics: an exploration of the parallels between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism” by Fritjof Carpa. I think it is available through Amazon.com as well.

Regards

Mantis108

31

mantis108

Thanks mantis108,I’ll look for the book.

“Beside not a lot of people are convinced that there might just be such a parallel”

Its so complex but so simple at the same time,I for one am convinced.

I enjoy throwing ideas around such as these,by no means am I
on the same scale as the sages of Eastern Mysticism and
Einstein but I am intriged none the less
:wink:

32

Thank you for a good thread everyone.