I have been thinking about this…what do you cosider yourselves?Do you consider yourselves martial artists?Do you think of yourself as a Taoist?A shaolin man?A taiji man?Or should one not consider himself anything?Should one think of himself as anything?
A Being in samsara (cycle of birth and death) to be lucky to be a human in this life.
Sorry, I know you probably arent looking for this answer.
I’m a man with the head about to blow up from never ending questions with no answer so far.
“You will never need to feel weak, helpless, indecisive, not fascinating or ashamed of your genital dimensions. GOOD-BYE Humiliation. Bullies, Karate Experts, Boxing Champions, traffic wardens will melt to pulp as you master every situation.”
Master Deltoo
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Stadium/2477/
I am…
in transit, until I realise the truth.
I am.
I am a figment of our imagination…
Who are you?
- Nexwho?
i’m not
Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in
I am he who was me when he was there with that guy who thought he was me but in fact wasn’t.
“Pain is only natures way of telling you’re in terrible agony”
I consider myself a nobody.
I’m totally baffled by my existence. I try to be me but sometimes even that is beyond my abilities.
I should get some sleep…
This post has no sane reason to exist.
If there is a god he’s propably sighing wearily and rolling his eyes right about now…
I better stop. I can smell the lightning bolt coming my way…
“Pain is only natures way of telling you’re in terrible agony”
right now,
I am the rock that was worn down by the sea, only to attain consciousness again in the instant that I am become water and slam against a rock.
a thought for the present time,
Cody
you misunderstand my question,my fault,should have worded it better.Since one should stop all thoughts, does one think of himself as anything,for example if he does taoist meditation does he consider himself a taoist or is this low level since he should not consider himself anything?Sorry,its difficult to come across clearly.
hard question to answer
because there is so much pressure to give a name to what you are. It mixes social factors with esoteric ones. Sometimes what you say to yourself and to others is not the same because it is easier that way. This can eventually yield confusion when considering what you are and what you are becoming.
“I am in the process of becoming whatever I am.” That is my definition of myself in general. Specifically, I’m not a this or that. But, I think and perceive and act in certain ways.
In clearing the mind, clarity of self is identifiable. I don’t believe that stopping all thoughts (a natural process) means that one’s identity is also stopped, though it can feel that way at times. It means that you are what you are and you don’t have to think about it. What results from these times and how it carries into your worldly contacts can be used to define who you are in a realistically practical sense.
If the question goes further into “what” I am (in human form, derived from what?), that is something else, which I don’t even try to answer. But, I don’t think that’s where you’re headed here. You’re hearing the wheels spinning. Sorry for the squeaks.
While certain labels indicate proficiency, others are more a statement of what one is in heart, without any particular degree of function to be expected. If one does taoist meditation and believes in this way, than to call one’s self a taoist, regardless of level of knowledge, is reasonable. To think that you need to have “arrived” in order to claim kinship to a “way” sounds unfounded to me.
Embracing one belief and defining yourself in terms of it will frame the way of thinking, and is a limitation, though possibly one aspired to. You are what you practice and believe in, in terms of it becoming part of you, regardless of whether you ponder it. I think to much concentration along those lines might be constricting and hinder progress towards the unfolding of self.
Cody
Excellent answer Cody. You are what you do, and not all that you know of that you do.
The concept that you have of yourself as once said by Scott R. Brown is not all that you are, and in many cases not even the truth.
It is fair to say that you are what you do, and you are welcome to call yourself, a juggler if you juggle, a soccer player if you play soccer, a martial artist if you do martial arts. Others will refer to you as that, and if you intention is not to describe to others who you are but rather how you practice who you are than it is fine.
You can also be empty, and in that emptyness be filled with all things. In certainty, beyond this life, that will be the case.
One thing to consider though is that by using terms such as ‘I am a martial artist’, ‘I am a pianist’ you also limit the perception of yourself to others. If you tell me that you are a martial artist, I will take my concept of what defines a martial artist and apply it to you. Someone else might think that means someone who is addicted to watching Bruce Lee Movies and attends Tae Kwon Do once a week. Others might think a pianist is someone who knows how to play a piano, whereas someone who has piano experience might imagine it to someone who has a much more than just that. Often said, that names are symbols that symbolize a meaning that is often not directly related to the name of the symbol itself.
- Nexus
Nexus
I enjoyed reading what you had to say. It put me at ease and raised other questions that are interesting.
The thoughts of concept of self as being not all that one is, of possibly not being the truth.
The first means to me that complete knowledge of what I am is not within my ability to realize. I see being and becoming, incompletely.
I think the concept of self has a stability to it at its core which allows for the blank spot(s), the unknown. That is how I see things now. How the concept of self reacts to affirmation or negative outside reaction is interesting. It might not change at all. That challenge, whether it results in giving in to complacency or losing faith in a concept of self, might cause a weakening of the structure. Not sure. I might ask, would the structure have changed if a tendency had not been there to begin with? I am thinking that there is something pretty definite inside, upon which character/personality are based. At first I thought it was character. Now, I begin to think that character is not what I refer to, but that character is a reflection of it. I am also assuming here that the concept of self is based on the reality of the self as it is.
The second. Well, concept of self can be based on what one would wish to be rather than what one is. That can come from a lack of confidence in what one really is, being unwilling to explore what is, wanting a more illustrious self, etc. I think that is sad. It can be based on what one is told one is and is to be by parents or other authority figures. It is based on internalization of outside influences, rather than facing the self with gentleness and open eyes.
Your last paragraph reflects a state of the world. People want to be able to identify others easily. Basically, which herd are you from? Hence, it is prudent to choose one’s words carefully. To say one is a taoist means that taoism is believed in and practiced. No advanced degree of understanding is implied. Yet, to say you are a pianist or martial artist does imply that you have a minimal ability to perform. You might feel that your path is to become a proficient musician or martial artist, but until such time as that is the case, it is better imo to say you are studying music or martial arts. No further explanation is necessary unless asked for, and then level of achievement or how you are expressing your interest can be explained.
I learned that I can’t be responsible for other people’s understanding of what I mean because I can’t be responsible for how what I say is interpreted past a certain degree. With that said, I find it best to supply as neutral an answer as possible to avoid a false impression.
Cody
Who we are, or rather who we believe ourselves to be, is never what we truly are, but an interpretation of what we choose to perceive. What we perceive is based upon our attitudes and beliefs about ourselves and life. These are often called “core beliefsâ€. A core belief is a foundational belief upon which our interpretations of reality are based. We possess a number of core beliefs. Core beliefs assist us in navigating through the physical realm. They help us define how we fit into the world and social culture in which we participate. Core beliefs are the rose or smoke covered glasses through which we perceive our life. Our core beliefs are the standards we use to evaluate the rightness and wrongness, the goodness and badness of our experiences. We often accept certain beliefs as true about ourselves and reality without questioning the validity or “truthfulness†of the belief. When we do not question the validity of our core beliefs we are slaves to attitudes and beliefs we acquired without our conscious permission and we feel at the mercy of circumstances around us. We do not realize that we are responsible for our own perceptions of our experience and feel that life happens to us, rather than that we are active participants in our lives and have a certain, but not absolute, control of our lives.
The face or character we show the world is a mere representation of our true identity. Our true identity is beyond description just as, “The Tao that can be expressed or described is not the eternal Tao†so, who we truly are is not that portion of our identity we present to the world, or even the portion of our identity that we present to ourselves. Most of us have no idea who we truly are; we constantly redefine ourselves based upon our own beliefs and perceptions of who we want to be and sometimes what others expect us to be. Who we want to be is often related to the society/culture we live in. For social purposes we acquire an identity that can be recognized by those around us. We must present a consistent identity to others in order for them to feel comfortable interacting with us. If we did not do so, our peers would think us crazy and it would be uncomfortable for them to interact with us.
We will present a different identity to different social groups. To my wife I present my husband identity, to my parents my son identity, to my students my teacher identity, etc. Each of these identities is merely a social role I play based upon the social environment I am participating in at the time. Each circumstance presents different expectations for my behavior. The behavior I present in each social environment creates an expectation among the other people that participate in that environment. I then tend to conform to the expectations others have, however I participate in the expectations they have of me based upon my history of behavior. This is why it is often beneficial to develop new peer groups when an individual chooses to change a major behavior/identity in their life. Peer groups will subtly and subconsciously reinforce their expectations of you. It is difficult to change identities with constant social pressure influencing you to conform to the group standards.
Discovering who we truly are is a fascinating journey that requires the mental skills of introspection and reasoning, when I discovered what my true identity was, I could only laugh. It was like discovering a cosmic joke that is being played upon all of us and none of us know about it. When we discover our own true identity we know the true identity of everyone else as well.
Scott
[This message was edited by Scott R. Brown on 10-21-01 at 10:43 AM.]
Scott, well said. What you said below is quite interesting:
“Discovering who we truly are is a fascinating journey that requires the mental skills of introspection and reasoning, when I discovered what my true identity was, I could only laugh. It was like discovering a cosmic joke that is being played upon all of us and none of us know about it. When we discover our own true identity we know the true identity of everyone else as well.”
Why are reasoning and introspection a requirement in discovering the self?
When someone is overweight they might think themselves as less of a person than someone who is skinny?
Honestly I have not had a single point in which I can dillineate from all others as to saying ‘the point at which I discovered my true identity.’
Up until now, I have always felt as if I make that discovery each moment and through each action. Identity has been evident through realization, but seems a constant process. Perhaps you look back ten years from now on who you are today and see a different true identity. I believe the true identity can experience but through reason I do not see means of putting it in words.
Scott, I feel you refer to oneness?
Great comments as well Cody. Keep looking at the world through the eyes of a child.
- Nexus
Nexus,
Thank you for your observations. I will do what I can to address your questions.
“Why are reasoning and introspection a requirement in discovering the self?â€
We can define understanding at least two ways. One meaning refers to the direct experiencing and clear interpretation of a phenomenon and the other to pure rational comprehension without direct experience. Both definitions require reason as an element of the understanding process.
Reasoning can be defined as the ability to comprehend the cause and effect relationship between phenomena.
Introspection is the ability to look inward to explore the mind, its contents and how it functions.
Understanding is dependent on reason. Without the ability to draw connections between phenomena and determine their cause and effect relationships we do not have understanding merely an experience.
It is possible to have an experience without understanding its meaning. If we have no frame of reference for our experience we will misunderstand our experience and its significance, making the experience entertaining, but of no immediate value. The value occurs once the individual can make sense of the experience, which is a function of reason. Experiences come and go, understanding (realization) is eternal.
One can experience Oneness, but the experience is most often fleeting. It is enough to demonstrate to us there is something more to reality, but once the experience dissipates it is the memory of the experience and our interpretation of it that gives it value.
The experience of Oneness is not the same as understanding our true identity.
Individuals “experience†Oneness, but individuals “knowâ€, “realize†their true identity.
“Up until now, I have always felt as if I make that discovery each moment and through each action. Identity has been evident through realization, but seems a constant process. Perhaps you look back ten years from now on who you are today and see a different true identity. I believe the true identity can experience but through reason I do not see means of putting it in words.â€
We are talking about two different interpretations of identity. The practice of experiencing each individual moment and observing who or what our identity is at each moment is the observation of our illusory identity in constant transition and not our true identity. It is a misunderstanding of the purpose of living in the “NOW†if we believe we are learning what our true identity is. What we are learning is what our true identity is “NOTâ€. In some schools of Buddhism this type of exercise is refered to as “not thatâ€. We are not able to point at what the true identity “is†so we point at what it is “not†and hopefully by elimination discover what it is. Our true identity is not a function of the world system nor can it be expressed in the world system. Observing ourselves moment to moment is merely an exercise designed to, once again, point the way. It is not the thing in itself.
I did not understand your point in your example of the overweight person.
Sincerely,
Scott
The being of not being. No, seriously I am a Buddhist/Taoist who trains kung fu for health, way of life and self-confidence, which is the self-knowledge of not fighting.