[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121532]So will you man up and admit you were incorrect or will you be like Jamieson and repeatedly refuse to, even when shown you were actually incorrect?[/QUOTE]
Sure, as soon as you man up and admit you were wrong about:
President Obama not presenting a budget
President Obama not presenting a proposal re: the debt ceiling
The CRA being a cause of the housing market meltdown
John McCain not supporting the bailouts back in 2008
Not using the “but they do it too” argument
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1121202]S&P was the ONLY one who made the downgrade on US credit rating from AAA to AA+
Other banks have NOT downgraded the US. [/QUOTE]
This is also incorrect.
"Credit rating agency Egan-Jones has cut the United States’ top credit ranking, citing concerns over the country’s high debt load and the difficulty the government faces in significantly reducing spending.
The agency said the action, which cut U.S. sovereign debt to the second-highest rating, was not based on fears over the country not raising its debt ceiling.
Instead, the cut is due the U.S. debt load standing at more than 100 percent of its gross domestic product. This compares with Canada, for example, which has a debt-to-GDP ratio of 35 percent, Egan-Jones said in a report sent on Saturday."
Source: (full article)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/18/rating-bonds-eganjones-idUSN1E76H0ZH20110718
And they even cut our rating before S&P did.
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121663]Sure, as soon as you man up and admit you were wrong about:
President Obama not presenting a budget
President Obama not presenting a proposal re: the debt ceiling
The CRA being a cause of the housing market meltdown
John McCain not supporting the bailouts back in 2008
Not using the “but they do it too” argument[/QUOTE]
WTF is this garbage? Can you liberals NEVER admiot you’re wrong? Do I have to just put you on ignore for not being a rational person and admitting what is is what is?
But I’ll humor you, for now and take on what you said:
Show me the budget proposal the community organizer trotted out, within the last 2 years, and I’ll admit I was incorrect. As I did on the filibuster issue, you must present evidence showing I was wrong.
The CRA was a cause, albeit not the major one. I’ll even admit it was a small factor. But it was a factor nonetheless. The deregulation done under Clinton was the biggest factor, imo.
I never said McCain did not support the bailouts. I actually think he voted for them. So I’m clueless why you want me to admit I was wrong about something I never said.
As to the last one, I’m not gonna play that one. I made assertions, backed them up, then you made assertions and have so far not backed them up. So I don’t see either of us playing that card in the first place.
One more thing, you should be above this garbage. Just admit you were wrong. It wont kill you. Don’t start saying ‘Well 1bad must do all these various things before I’ll admit to being wrong about something he proved I was wrong about’. Man up, admit the truth. You were wrong. But it’s ok, we’re all wrong at times. I even admit I’ve been wrong before, and on this very site. Can you admit that too?
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121693]Show me the budget proposal the community organizer trotted out, within the last 2 years, and I’ll admit I was incorrect. As I did on the filibuster issue, you must present evidence showing I was wrong.[/QUOTE]
Um…on this very page…
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121271]From February 2011:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget
Looks like a budget to me.
RE: The debt ceiling hostage negotiation
From July 20, 2011:
http://www.rttnews.com/Content/PoliticalNews.aspx?Id=1669588
Poll Shows Majority Support Obama’s Debt Ceiling Proposal
The poll showed that 58 percent support the president’s proposal, which would cut the deficit by $4 trillion by cutting federal spending, increasing taxes on corporations and the wealthy, and reducing the level of spending on Medicare.
From April 2011:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/14/us/politics/14obama.html
Obamas Debt Plan Sets Stage for Long Battle Over Spending
President Obama made the case Wednesday for slowing the rapid growth of the national debt while retaining core Democratic values, proposing a mix of long-term spending cuts, tax increases and changes to social welfare programs as his opening position in a fierce partisan budget battle over the nations fiscal challenges.
After spending months on the sidelines as Republicans laid out their plans, Mr. Obama jumped in to present an alternative and a philosophical rebuttal to the conservative approach that will reach the House floor on Friday. Republican leaders were working Wednesday to round up votes for that measure and one to finance the government for the rest of the fiscal year.
Mr. Obama said his proposal would cut federal budget deficits by a cumulative $4 trillion over 12 years, compared with a deficit reduction of $4.4 trillion over 10 years in the Republican plan. But the president said he would use starkly different means, rejecting the fundamental changes to Medicare and Medicaid proposed by Republicans and relying in part on tax increases on affluent Americans.
The president framed his proposal as a balanced alternative to the Republican plan, setting the stage for a debate that will consume Washington in coming weeks, as the administration faces off with Congress over raising the national debt ceiling, and into next year, as the president runs for re-election.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121693]The CRA was a cause, albeit not the major one. I’ll even admit it was a small factor. But it was a factor nonetheless.[/QUOTE]
No, it was not, as I’ve demonstrated repeatedly.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121693]I never said McCain did not support the bailouts. I actually think he voted for them. So I’m clueless why you want me to admit I was wrong about something I never said.[/QUOTE]
Actually, you claimed repeatedly that Senator McCain did not support the bailouts of Fannie and Freddie (my apologies I should have specified that in my previous post). When presented with the evidence that he did, you resorted to claiming that they did not meet your definition of bailout.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121693]As to the last one, I’m not gonna play that one. I made assertions, backed them up, then you made assertions and have so far not backed them up. So I don’t see either of us playing that card in the first place.[/QUOTE]
You repeatedly claim that you do not use the “but others do it too” argument. When confronted with the facts, you dig in your heels and refuse to admit that you do use it.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121693]One more thing, you should be above this garbage. Just admit you were wrong. It wont kill you. Don’t start saying ‘Well 1bad must do all these various things before I’ll admit to being wrong about something he proved I was wrong about’. Man up, admit the truth. You were wrong. But it’s ok, we’re all wrong at times. I even admit I’ve been wrong before, and on this very site. Can you admit that too?[/QUOTE]
I’ve even admitted I’ve been wrong before…on this very site too. However, I just feel like giving you a taste of your own medicine.
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121761]Um…on this very page…[/QUOTE]
I was wrong about that, it appears. I do still maintain they did not pass a budget for FY 2011, as required by law to do.
But as to the original assertion, I was wrong.
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121761]No, it was not, as I’ve demonstrated repeatedly.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. But I will not admit I was wrong as I can also cite sources saying it was. It’s one of those cases where experts on both sides are making conflicting claims, so neither of us can prove or disprove either theory.
But you do agree deregulation was the primary cause, right?
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121761]Actually, you claimed repeatedly that Senator McCain did not support the bailouts of Fannie and Freddie (my apologies I should have specified that in my previous post). When presented with the evidence that he did, you resorted to claiming that they did not meet your definition of bailout.[/QUOTE]
I do recall McCain and bailouts being discussed several years ago, so can you post those posts to freshen my mind, please?
I do recall saying McCain was not my choice in the GOP primaries, and that I was going to be holding my nose when voting for him as he was the lesser of two evils. Considering the community organizer’s economy, I think I was correct on that one. I cant fathom anyone doing worse than this idiot has done.
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121761]I’ve even admitted I’ve been wrong before…on this very site too. However, I just feel like giving you a taste of your own medicine.[/QUOTE]
So you do admit you were wrong, and that the community organizer had 7 months of a filibuster-proof Senate as well as a large majority in the House of Representatives?
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121789]I was wrong about that, it appears. I do still maintain they did not pass a budget for FY 2011, as required by law to do. [/QUOTE]
Fiscal 2011 Budget: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/index.html
Passage of the Fiscal 2011 Budget:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/09/usa-buget-deal-idUSWEN083620110409
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/10/republicans-2011-budget-deal-beginning-cuts-ahead/
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/04/19/2011-budget-battle-only-the-first-of-many-to-come-
It was passed late, but it was passed.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121789]Fair enough. But I will not admit I was wrong as I can also cite sources saying it was. It’s one of those cases where experts on both sides are making conflicting claims, so neither of us can prove or disprove either theory.[/QUOTE]
Alas, but you did not provide any evidence. I provided links to studies and speeches by Federal Reserve Governors that support my remarks. Heck, the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission report supports my remarks. You linked to a polemic. Assertion is not fact. I provided factually supported studies/reports proving that you were objectively wrong.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121789]I do recall McCain and bailouts being discussed several years ago, so can you post those posts to freshen my mind, please?[/QUOTE]
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881325&postcount=525
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881330&postcount=528
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881342&postcount=533
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881354&postcount=536
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881406&postcount=543
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881454&postcount=559
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881456&postcount=560
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881458&postcount=562
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881459&postcount=563
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881462&postcount=566
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881464&postcount=568
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881470&postcount=570
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881476&postcount=572
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881478&postcount=574
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881486&postcount=577
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881489&postcount=578
http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=881492&postcount=579
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121789]So you do admit you were wrong, and that the community organizer had 7 months of a filibuster-proof Senate as well as a large majority in the House of Representatives?[/QUOTE]
Yes, I was incorrect. I thought one needed 61 votes to break a filibuster.
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121898]Fiscal 2011 Budget: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/index.html
Passage of the Fiscal 2011 Budget:[/QUOTE]
I misunderstood which year to use. I’m no accountant. 
They did not pass a budget in 2010.
“House Democrats will not pass a budget blueprint in 2010, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) will confirm in a speech on Tuesday.”
Source: (full article)
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/104635-dems-wont-pass-budget?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4d9e7b8c4e447d64%252C0
As to McCain, he did not support the bailouts. I was correct. We were discussing a purchase he voted for, not a bailout. In that thread (not just the posts that were pulled), I make clear the difference between a bailout and a purchase. FYI, I’m against both, but McCain said he did not support the bailouts and in his actions he only voted in favor of a purchase.
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121898]Yes, I was incorrect. I thought one needed 61 votes to break a filibuster.[/QUOTE]
Thank you! And see, it didn’t kill ya.
Now if we can just get Jamieson to admit he was wrong when he said the Federal Reserve is a private corporation. Of course I’m not holding my breath on that one.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121914]As to McCain, he did not support the bailouts. I was correct. We were discussing a purchase he voted for, not a bailout. In that thread (not just the posts that were pulled), I make clear the difference between a bailout and a purchase. FYI, I’m against both, but McCain said he did not support the bailouts and in his actions he only voted in favor of a purchase.
Thank you! And see, it didn’t kill ya.
Now if we can just get Jamieson to admit he was wrong when he said the Federal Reserve is a private corporation. Of course I’m not holding my breath on that one. ;)[/QUOTE]
come on, hold your breath! Just for a little while, like, a week should do. Maybe someone could help you. lol
The federal reserve is controlled by private banks. there omg!!! I’ve said it again!
Let me say it one more time. The Federal Reserve of the United States of America is controlled by private banks.
Should I say it again? Because it is. I mean you can cite all sorts of rot and cover your ears and make grandiose statements about the treasury and so on and so forth. Go ahead.
but once again, The federal reserve of the USA is controlled by private banks which make up it’s board of directors.
DIRECTORS!
why would a private bank be directing the federal reserve?
why would this be denied this fact that can be found almost anywhere?
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121909]I misunderstood which year to use. I’m no accountant.
They did not pass a budget in 2010.
“House Democrats will not pass a budget blueprint in 2010, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) will confirm in a speech on Tuesday.”
Source: (full article)
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/104635-dems-wont-pass-budget?sms_ss=facebook&at_xt=4d9e7b8c4e447d64%252C0[/QUOTE]
Fiscal 2010 Budget: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy10/pdf/fy10-newera.pdf
Passage of said budget: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123870974208284245.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/29/politics/main4977653.shtml
Your link refers to the FY 2011 Budget (October 2010 - September 2011), which was not in fact passed in 2010, it was passed in April 2011.
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1121914]As to McCain, he did not support the bailouts. I was correct. We were discussing a purchase he voted for, not a bailout. In that thread (not just the posts that were pulled), I make clear the difference between a bailout and a purchase. FYI, I’m against both, but McCain said he did not support the bailouts and in his actions he only voted in favor of a purchase. [/QUOTE]
Ah, but (as noted in the posts to which I linked) Senator McCain referred to them as bailouts and supported them. Hence, he supported the bailouts (his words, not mine).
poverty can teach americans a thing or two about humility and humanity.
fear of being poor is a sign of an insecure nation.
[QUOTE=bawang;1121979]poverty can teach americans a thing or two about humility and humanity.
fear of being poor is a sign of an insecure nation.[/QUOTE]
Shows what you know! We’ve always had lots of poverty! Our humility totally kicks the ass of your humility.
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121946]Ah, but (as noted in the posts to which I linked) Senator McCain referred to them as bailouts and supported them. Hence, he supported the bailouts (his words, not mine).[/QUOTE]
If I call you a space alien, does that make you a space alien?
[QUOTE=Reality_Check;1121941]Your link refers to the FY 2011 Budget (October 2010 - September 2011), which was not in fact passed in 2010, it was passed in April 2011.[/QUOTE]
They went over a year without passing a budget and having it signed by the President. Which is against the law. Can we agree on this?
[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1122034]They went over a year without passing a budget and having it signed by the President. Which is against the law. Can we agree on this?[/QUOTE]
The President is required to present a budget, which he did. He can’t force the Congress to vote on it. The Congress then puts together a budget resolution, which does not require a Presidential signature (though it must pass both chambers). Appropriation bills actually spend the budgeted money. Those require a Presidential signature. However, they are initiated in Congress, not by the President.
So, in the budget process, President Obama did everything he was required to do.