All comments welcome.
This is possible due to Dzuo Hsienfu, Wei Hsiaotang’s long time student and most outspoken 8 Step Shrfu in Taiwan…
Jiang Hualong, famous master of Mei Hua Mantis, was friends with Ba Gua Chuen master Wang Dzongching and Hsing Yi and Tong Bei master Chen Deshan.
Together these three masters combined the best techniques of their respective styles to create new Mantis forms.
The basics of this new style had eight postures and eight moving steps so it was named Eight Step Praying Mantis.
Jiang Hualong taught this style to Feng Huanyi.
In 1917 Wei Jiyun, Wei Hsiaotang’s father, invited 38 year old Master Feng to their home to teach a 16 year old Wei Yentong. Not till many years later would Wei Yentong change his name to Wei Hsiaotang.
The young Wei, already proficient in the Ditang school of boxing immediately invited Master Feng to cross hands and compare skills.
But the young master soon discovered that he was no match for Feng as he was easily tossed to the ground.
Instead of getting up, Wei stayed on the ground and waited for Feng to attack.
Wei hoped to use his Ditang Chuen “scissors kick” or “lying break kick” to attack Feng as he advanced.
But Master Feng didn’t even bother to attack, he just stood there and shouted out," To lie on the ground is a shameless man, it’s a good man who will get up and fight again." …
strange that feng would say that considering that jiang hua long invented low mantis based largely impart of his cross training in monkey groundwork. It seems to be used as a last resort and there is no laying down, just very low stances
Feng being adept at shuai chiao, it only makes sense. Do you know of any other stories? I heard Master Feng (Ghost Shadow) was really tall and used the flying footwork to be very fast. Master Wei’s name change has to do with a tradition that Master Jiang Hua Long made and perhaps even before him. Kind of a new name from Master Jiang Hualong’s book naming the next generations based on the I Ching.
Its cool to hear family stories from cousins overseas
Do we have any underworld connections in 8 step history? Any dirty little secrets no one talks about?
Master Sun did a seminar and told the “real” or more logical history or Wong Long. No enlightenenment under the tree, a lot of bloodshed, insurgence, betrayal and all they typical bitterness of chinese history. We always heard that Jiang Hua Long was a kind of robin hood. From Illya Protovinov’s article I found that Song Side’s decentents think of him as a fool who lived in their ancestor’s shadow. I don’t care of right or wrong, I just get a kick out of the “Rash.omon” of viewpoints and the stories that make up our history.
Ilya Profatilov would never say anything to sully the names of his MA ancestors which he looks on as his own flesh and blood.
I have read the article you refer to and come to a different conclusion as to its meaning.
Well I don’t know him personally, but the tone of the article’s word usage made him look less than Song Zide which only makes sense because it was told by Song’s his decendents. I didn’t even remotely imply that Illya was putting any kind of slant on it, hes just relating what they have said.
Thanks for the nice story. I thought the moral is about Wude (martial virtus) as well as relative skill levels.
Anyway, a bit of a side note that I would like to share. Once upon a time in China, story telling in the restaurants were very popular. Epic stories that were written in chapters format (ie Romance of three kingdoms and Water Margin) were best seat sellers. That is kind of like live band in the bar thing except that epic stories can go on for days so a good story teller could guarantee seat sales. This popularity of chapter format stories somehow translated into Kung Fu. In truely friendly matches, that is when both parties really are for exploring the depth of different Kung Fu, one party becomes the exponent of a move and other does the counter whichever that may be. This countering and anticounter could go on if they are equally matched. If for certain reasons, a break (not when a finished move applied) appears, either side (usually the upper hand) would pause slightly for the other to recouperate. Then they go at it again. This was also a good measure for not having a set time period (rounds) as in modern day. Sometimes an incent is burnt to approximate the entire duration of the match (about half an hour to an hour). Individual rounds don’t really exsit. The way that we exercise the Taizu Duanda in advanced level is similar in this respect. That’s when martial arts really is about the art and not about winning or losing.
Stacey,
Those other subjects you brought can be discussed at another time.
Thank s to you and Mantis108 for your comments.
This story was told by a long time student of 8 Step master Wei Hsiaotang
…On hearing these words from Feng Huanyi, master Wei came to a realization and respectfully honored Feng Huanyi as his shrfu.
After 4 years of bitter practice master Wei attained the essence of 8 Step PM.
He was 20 years old.
At this time he was invited to Fushan county to be a MA coach.
At 23 he was posted in the military as a MA instructor.
In 1931 master Wei took a pleasure trip to Korea.
Several of his Chinese friends in Korea knew that he was a MA instructor and would get up early in the morning with him to practice kung fu and chat.
One day, his friend Tsuei, who managed a restaurant, ran into some serious business trouble.
He was being chased and beaten by 4 or 5 Koreans.
He ran to master Wei crying out," The Koreans are beating me with sticks!"
As master Wei ran forward he shouted out to the Koreans," Don’t strike! Don’t strike!" Trying to stop the Koreans from using their sticks.
Unfortuneatly they didn’t speak master Wei’s Shandong dialect.
They could only understand that master Wei and Tsuei where friends…so they hit them both!
Master Wei and all his friends had no choice but to run back to Tsuei’s restaurant and hide.
The Koreans wouldn’t give up so easily and used their sticks to smash through the windows and jump in.
Master Wei and his friends wouldn’t survive in there so they escaped through the back door.
The Koreans quickly gave chase with shouts of death.
At this point he realized that he’d be beaten to death if he didn’t fight back.
As he ran he pulled out from inside his jacket a weapon unique to 8 Step PM, “Reach to Sky Palm”, and attached it to his hand…
HKV- Different time, different decorum. Back in the day, that was a perfectly acceptable way of carrying out a fight because one’s own virtue was most important. To get up after being openly beaten escalated a challenge match to something else. Back in those days, it clearly showed your character and your intentions if you got back up.
In a real fight, a person should not allow a downed opponent to get back up unless he feels he can run away.
Similarly, a person who gets taken down shouldn’t assume that he’s automatically going to be allowed to get back up. The real life fight isn’t finished until one of the fighters is taken out or gets away.
A scissor kick or leg maneuver can be extremely useful in fighting a real life attacker who knocks you down and is seeking to finish the job.
Thanks for the comments, very interesting.
Since the comments don’t point to a translation defect I will continue…
The so called “Reach To Sky Palm” is what people normally call the finger puller.
It is worn on the finger or thumb to assist in pulling back the bowstring when hunting with arrows.
It is a wide ring made of metal or jade with one end protruding from the side.
It somewhat resembles E- Mei Needles, but half the length and more nimble.
Back to the story.
The Koreans were about to smash Master Wei and his friends with sticks.
As Master Wei ran he suddenly turned around and dodged to the side using the technique “Green Dragon Shakes its Tail” and with his concealed weapon cracked the skull of the nearest Korean, knocking him to the ground.
The other Koreans saw this and started shouting out something to the effect,“Chinaman kills Korean!”
Since it was now only Master Wei standing there they didn’t run figuring his two fists couldn’t take all four of them.
Just then the electric tram stopped nearby and many of the passengers, hearing the shouts, jumped off and surrounded Master Wei.
The mob grabbed whatever was available and advanced on Master Wei ready to strike him to death, but as soon as Master Wei was attacked he fought back with the speed characteristic of a fighting mantis.
Later, he couldn’t recall what techniques he used when fighting and running he only knew that he had managed to smash his way out of the circle and escape back to his friend’s house.
On reading the next day’s newspaper he discovered that he had seriously injured one and killed three Koreans.
He was able to return back to Shandong thanks to the help of his friends.
He didn’t return to Korea for another 17 years.
By that time his name had already changed from Wei Yentong to the now well known Wei Hsiaotang.
Master Wei slapped him?
These chi gung feats are very common and you can witness them yourself if you come to Taiwan, but I have never heard that such a tactic would be used.
I have had several first hand experiences as have my students, shrfu and friends.
GM Wei’s students collected his sonnets and wrote them down.
Here are four verses as well as the Chinese text.
Please feel free to comment on or correct my translation.
In totoal 6 specific techniques/methods are mentioned.
As I recall 8 Step’s Black Tiger Steals the Heart is not the same as the 7* technique.
But is one of the 8 moving steps.
“Attack through the center gate,
Move the hands continuously like the wheels of a cart,
legs move forward and backward like its’ axles,
This is difficult for the enemy to approach.”
“Enter through the center, overturn the sides,
Move the fists continuously,
Fists thrown down are hard to dodge,
Sticking to him with folded elbow is most natural.”
“Seizing hand straight punch is difficult to defend against,
Black tiger steals the heart observe the center,
adding the groin kick is better,
Stealing treasure from behind is most important.”
“Connecting fanche lulu together is forceful,
Others can’t approach it with its’ fists in front and back,
The enemy finds it hard to approach and attack,
I can move back, but it is not easy for him to move forward.”
Andy,
Lipi’s power cut:
Throwing the fists down here refers to performing PI, the pi in the name Lipi, over and over.
Otherwise known as fanche technique.
In the Lipi form this technique is done once bfefore connecting to other techniques.
Folded Elbow here in my understanding refers specifically to the fourth “hard” technique of 8 Hard and 12 Soft.
This technique is applied to the opponent when sticking close or leaning.
Stealing Treasure here is not as the application you mentioned, but very close. To change to your defintion is easy.
It is this way, after performing the groin kick, if the opponent defends against you well, then he can stick to your leg as you are trying to return it to the ground.
You must retreat as he rushes in, he will perform a takedown, but if you"steal the Treasure" then he will be hampered.
So if he is good he can get you in a bear hug like you say, and you can try to “steal…” at this point.
What I said of Black Tiger Stealing the Heart being one of the 8 moving steps is incorrect.
The 8th moving step is also known as Black Tiger Exits the Cave.
It is said by Dzuo Hsienfu that GM Wei spent 3 years trying to perfect this technique.
What I was trying to say is that stealing treasure is the hand strike to the groin.
In the sonnet, Wei’s meaning is that it will be applied after he does a groin kick and the opponent rushes in, it is a chance for Wei to steal the treasure.
I did not train with GM Wei, but we can understand his training to a certain extant from the sonnets he has on the subject.
As for the instructor test that sounds like a very long thread.
Maybe we can start a new one.
For your info. whatever you have researched on mantis stories, will eventially becomes Shyun Style’s legend, only fancier. You are unpaid worker for them to gethering info.
I wouldn’t even bother with them. Only know so little. A tip for dishonor people is they will make you dare not to challenge them to come up with real things. Put up with all the legend up front so you think they are some one or have some thing. In truth, they have nothing else than second-handed info that was modified with personal fantisies.
Oh, got to tell you one thing, GM Wei didn’t use the secrete weapon, whoever told you that has fantisized it. He grabed the hook that used in the cooking kitchen for burning woods for his weapon. My father has been with GM Wei over 30 years in daily bases. The source you have, he has been with GM Wei for about 3 years, in Gm Wei’s last years in life.
OOps, I am giving out free bees again for fantisy sellers. Well, I don’t really care about the people who paid attention to the fancies and ignored the boring real things. They can have them all.
