Uhm.. yeah I know that too 
I just want to point out the the picture that was provided to prove that the rectus abdominis is one muscle clearly shows it as two muscles - one on the left, and one on the right.
So what does the rectus abdominis do during side-bending? Does half do a concentric contraction while the other half an eccentric contraction?
I think it is possible to contract separate portions of the rectus abdominis when it’s in an unloaded position. Just sitting here upright in my chair, I can do it. Leaning back to put some load on it causes the whole thing to work. I don’t think there’s any way to do significant work (like a sit-up) with anything but the whole muscle at once.
While we’re on the subject, how many muscles is the pubococcygeus, and how many of us can selectively contract the left and right halves?
If the abs were two seperate muscles (divided vertically), then they would have two seperate names.
Nice try, though.
IronFist
Originally posted by IronFist
If the abs were two seperate muscles (divided vertically), then they would have two seperate names.
Like left rectus abdominis and right rectus abdominis, for instance?
This one is from Duke University. Scroll down to linea alba -
http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:LeZ4uzWfHxQC:www.duke.edu/~sas19/gprotein/quiz_1_table.pdf+rectus+abdominis+left+right+linea+alba+duke&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
I hope you know I agree with you regarding abs training.
Take care,
PLC
Well, I’m not exactly sure what that website was talking about, but here’s what it said:
..elastic ligaments between arches limit flexibility of column linea alba where aponeurosis joins again and joins mirror-image counterpart separates left and right Rectus Abdominis Longissimus part of Erector Spinae - connects
So I think they’re talking about something else?
IronFist
Um, I think the formatting got crunched going from pdf to html. You got a piece of ligamentum flavum and a piece of longissimus mixed in with your linea alba.
I think it’s supposed to look like this -
“linea alba - where aponeurosis joins again and joins mirror-image counterpart separates left and right Rectus Abdominis”
Still not gramatically correct, but it does make sense.
Here’s a better picture of the linea alba and the tendinous inscriptions, showing that the rectus is made up of of separate sections of muscle fibers joined together with connective tissue. All the sections on the left are innervated by the left side nerves, and all the sections on the right are innervated by right side nerves, just like all the other bilateral pairs of muscles in the body.
http://summit.stanford.edu/ourwork/PROJECTS/LUCY/lucywebsite/img/CA-461.jpg
But unlike all those other pairs, the left and right rectus are joined down the middle and work in unison. So we just talk about one.
I’m pretty sure nobody ever talks about a left or right rectus exept maybe when there’s a paralysis on one side. That could occur with damage to the nerves on one side from a spinal injury, for instance.
PLCrane, good picture!
To the best of my knowledge, they’re still connected under the linea alba. This makes it one muscle.
IronFist
http://www.unc.edu/~mackin/chapter6b63l.html
Linea alba is on the midventral line of all vertebrates and separates myomeres of left and right sides of the body
http://www.udallas.edu/biology/Brown/Anatomy/09Muscle%20Types.html
Raphe–junction of two muscles at a band of connective tissue to form a line of fusion, such as the linea alba
http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/library/crone/3048/highli07.html
ANTERIOR ABDOMINAL WALL: The anterior abdominal wall muscles consist of a) three layers of flat muscles, the tendons or aponeuroses of which converge on the midline or linea alba and b) a vertically oriented pair of muscles, which are incompletely sheathed by those aponeuroses (rectus sheath).
The flat muscles (external oblique, internal oblique, and transversus abdominis) arise from the lateral aspect of the torso. This muscle wall protects the abdominal viscera. These three muscles act to compress the abdominal contents (i.e., raise intrabdominal pressure) during expiration, urination, defecation, and assist in maintaining pressure on the curve of the low back, resisting lordosis (sway back).5
And here’s a page with a cross-section, showing the tendon between the two bands of the rectus (they only labeled one side - #4)
http://anatomy.uams.edu/htmlpages/anatomyhtml/xsections/section26.html
And incidentally, I just learned that a bovine rectus abdominis is a flank steak. Maybe you could get your local butcher (if there are any left) to show you a whole one.
ok, so…the reason I can do more leg lifts than sit ups or crunches
is because there are other muscles helping out on the leg lifts???
Today I did 3 sets of 50 crunches intervalled with 3 sets of 50
6" to 45 degree leg lifts and burned out on the crunches
but could have doubled the number of leg lifts easy.
Also, I can do more crunches vs. full sit-ups.
I have operated under the concept that a full sit-up releases
tension at the top of the movement and therefore you get
a better burn by doing good crunches (this meaning that most
people who just lift their heads or at most the shoulder blades
are NOT doing a full crunch.) So, why is it harder to do a full
sit-up then a good full-crunch*
curious…sounds like IF and PLcrane have spent a lot of time
looking at this…
matt
*Full Crunch–curling the head towards the naval until the middle
to small of the back is off the floor.
Originally posted by Oso
ok, so…the reason I can do more leg lifts than sit ups or crunches
is because there are other muscles helping out on the leg lifts???
Yes. Ilio-psoas is the main hip flexor, with some help from rectus femoris (middle and longest of the quads). Be careful that you don’t let your lower back hollow too much when you’re doing the leg lifts, it’s bad for the joints in the lower part of the spine.
I have operated under the concept that a full sit-up releases
tension at the top of the movement and therefore you get
a better burn by doing good crunches (this meaning that most
people who just lift their heads or at most the shoulder blades
are NOT doing a full crunch.) So, why is it harder to do a full
sit-up then a good full-crunch*
Maybe. I think you’re more of an expert on it than I am, because you’ve obviously done a lot more situps than I ever have.
My preference is to do sit-backs. You start sitting up, let yourself back 1/4 of the way and hold for 20 seconds, go to halfway back and hold another 20, then go 3/4 and hold, then sit up again. You never go all the way back. I also like to do this at an angle - looks kinda like a flying side kick on the ground. Take my picture and we’ll cut it out and stick it onto a picture of the sky between two mountains.
PLC
PLC
sit-backs rock…thanks for the new ab exercise
I do a few sit-ups and such, the above statements were just
MHO on the differences.
I rarely do full sit-ups, 80-120 crunches and about the same
for leg lifts and 50-60 for each oblique.
funny, I’ve been a bit slack on kicks lately and spent a couple
of hours on the bag yesterday and am rediscovering how much
the abs come in to play on kicks, especially spinning and jump
spinning type kicks. Not something I forgot intellectually, just
haven’t been sore like this in a while.
thanks,
Matt
Not much on the martial end of this upper abs, lower abs, thread. Too much emphasis on the musclebound, do you actually practice martial application? I wonder…
Who are you talking to? I think almost everyone here does martial arts in one form or another.
What’s wrong with a martial artist studying anatomy, muscle physiology, and weight lifting?
IronFist
IMHO
I have the basic belief that if you want to get good at something
you should train that something. i.e. your forms, kicks, techniques,
stances, whatever.
But, I also know from experience that good cross training is
essential for the modern martial artist. 2 to 3 30 minute
cardio’s a week followed by a full circuit lift are essential for me
to stay in good shape. I used to get all my cardio by sparring
full speed 4 or 5 hours a week but since I moved and started
teaching I don’t get that. So, I run.
BTW, I think that Racqetball is the best non-martial oriented
cross training for MA. You need: Split Focus, Explosive movement,
fast hands and cardo endurance.
Thanks,
Matt
What’s wrong with a martial artist studying anatomy, muscle physiology, and weight lifting?
Because lifting weights makes you slow.
And HYOOOOGE!!!
:rolleyes:
IronFist
ewallace
depends on how you lift, I think.
I’m not a pro at lifting by any means but I lift only in the 50-60 %
range for more reps and try to explode into each lift.
My thought is that I’m training endurance and explosive power
and am not trying to add mass. I also only lift 2-3 days a week
to complement my ma training, not instead of.
I was also told by a bodybuilder friend that if you worked the
whole range of motion in a lift that you WERE stretching. He
was also a very competant 1st dan in Isshinryu karate.
I’m open for correction on the above opinion.
Matt
- Oso
I was just being a wise guy. I don’t actually believe it will make you slow.
oh…
:o