# TUF Season 4 question **URL:** \ **Category:** Mixed Martial Arts\ **Created:** [October 10, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659 "2006-10-10T00:21:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Green\_Cloud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Green\_Cloud](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Green_Cloud)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/21 "2006-10-12T04:02:35Z")
Forms are forms and fighting is fighting what does that have to do with the tech. that Chuck was throwing:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Flying-Monkey](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/flying-monkey/32/718_2.png) [@Flying-Monkey](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Flying-Monkey)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/22 "2006-10-12T04:42:53Z")
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;712137]OK… here are just a few common ones: 1 The backfist- seen in many CMA styles… next to worthless as a fighting technique. 1. The “windmill” flailing arms techniques- seen in Hun Ga and other CMA styles… very low percentage and will get most practitioners KO’ed against people who know effective and efficient striking techniques. 2. Most of that jumping around like a dying bug cr@p shown on the video clip on your website… again extremely low percentage and next to worthless.[/QUOTE] Talking snack about kung fu on a kung fu forum… You have never went up against a true CMAist. ---
**Author:** ![Knifefighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Knifefighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Knifefighter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/23 "2006-10-12T04:49:10Z")
[QUOTE=Green Cloud;712139]Forms are forms and fighting is fighting [/QUOTE] And therein lies one of the main differences between the majority of CMA and MMA. MMA leaves out the BS things that are unrelated to fighting, such as forms and standing holding stances. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Xia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@The\_Xia](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/The_Xia)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/24 "2006-10-12T04:51:25Z")
Knifefighter If you feel TCMA sucks, what are you doing on this forum? ---
**Author:** ![SevenStar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sevenstar/32/114_2.png) [@SevenStar](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SevenStar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:12pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/25 "2006-10-12T15:12:43Z")
[QUOTE=Green Cloud;712129]The punch Chuck was throwing is not a sao choi, a Sow Choi is basicaly an extended hook. The punch that he was doing is called a Fon gok or a curved 45% downward punch. Or like you said before an over hand right. That punch is done quite frequently in CLF but I’ve also seen Jhon Waine do it in the movies. Who cares what it’s called if set up correctly it will knock a muther out.[/QUOTE] an extended hook? I thought it struck with the forearm? Or are you referring to the trajectory. As for the name - I agree. Like I said in the initial post, a punch is a punch. But if you ask chuck, he won’t call it a fon guk. That is what prompted my response. He wasn’t using good cma. He was using a good punch. period. ---
**Author:** ![SevenStar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sevenstar/32/114_2.png) [@SevenStar](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SevenStar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:18pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/26 "2006-10-12T15:18:47Z")
[QUOTE=The Xia;712147]If you feel TCMA sucks, what are you doing on this forum?[/QUOTE] 1. Ming Yue 2. because we can be 3. because regardless of how we feel about cma, there is some interesting stuff here 4. we don’t feel cma itself sucks, just that there is a lot of BS out there. several cma guys here feel the same way. 5. in my case, I was a a cross training CMA guy when I joined here 5 years ago. 6. I am a moderator, so it’s my job to be here 7. I still get something of a kick seeing people use the " too deadly" thing when it comes to CMA. 8. it’s great talking to the cma guys with experience who know better and consequently don’t use the “too deadly” phrase. 9. the training forum here is awesome. 10. Ming Yue. ---
**Author:** ![SevenStar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sevenstar/32/114_2.png) [@SevenStar](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SevenStar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/27 "2006-10-12T15:22:19Z")
[QUOTE=Flying-Monkey;712145]Talking snack about kung fu on a kung fu forum… You have never went up against a true CMAist.[/QUOTE] He used to train CMA… does that mean his teacher and whole school sucked? ---
**Author:** ![Knifefighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Knifefighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Knifefighter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:30pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/28 "2006-10-12T15:30:35Z")
[QUOTE=Green Cloud;712129] That punch is done quite frequently in CLF but I’ve also seen Jhon Waine do it in the movies. [/QUOTE] And John Wayne punching someone in the movies has what to do with whether or not a technique is viable? ---
**Author:** ![SevenStar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sevenstar/32/114_2.png) [@SevenStar](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SevenStar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:34pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/29 "2006-10-12T15:34:08Z")
…[QUOTE=The Xia;712131]Yes? (10 character limit is annoying)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SevenStar;712204]7. I still get something of a kick seeing people use the " too deadly" thing when it comes to CMA. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Gash](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/ben_gash/32/34_2.png) [@Ben\_Gash](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Ben_Gash)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/30 "2006-10-12T15:49:31Z")
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;712210]And John Wayne punching someone in the movies has what to do with whether or not a technique is viable?[/QUOTE] Now you’re just being facetious. That wasn’t the point of that statement as you are well aware. Stop playing at being an unpleasant little troll. As for your assertion that backfists don’t work, what a complete joke. I know several martial artists from different backgrounds who’ve ended fights with backfists of various descriptions. As for the windmilling stuff, it works IN CONTEXT. If you stand there and windmill then you’re going to get KTFOd, but if you use all of your combat skills and attributes effectively, closing, entering, bridging then it works perfectly well. ---
**Author:** ![Knifefighter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Knifefighter](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Knifefighter)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/31 "2006-10-12T16:09:06Z")
[QUOTE=Ben Gash;712214]As for your assertion that backfists don’t work, what a complete joke. I know several martial artists from different backgrounds who’ve ended fights with backfists of various descriptions.[/QUOTE] The only backfist that will even come close to ending a fight is a spinning backfist and that is still a very low percentage tech. Without the spin added to it, a backfist is just about the weakest and most ineffective strike there is. [QUOTE=Ben Gash;712214]As for the windmilling stuff, it works IN CONTEXT.[/QUOTE] “Windmilling” punches are almost as stupid, but at least they can generate power. ---
**Author:** ![bodhitree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b782af/32.png) [@bodhitree](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/bodhitree)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/32 "2006-10-12T16:15:52Z")
I’ve actually seen a lot of boxers (and do it myself) turn a missed jab into a backfist or hammerfist. It will land to get you the point, disorient your opponent and make them more vulnerable to more strikes, and makes them think you are faster than you really are. This doesn’t look like a backfist, and isn’t thrown from way back at the face (like I said it usually starts out as a jab) ---
**Author:** ![bodhitree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b782af/32.png) [@bodhitree](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/bodhitree)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/33 "2006-10-12T16:25:06Z")
Chuck is a great example of how unconventional striking can work. I personally don’t think large circluar movements are good for striking, but my old tongbei sifu used to say you have to make things smaller when you are fighting, you exaderate the movement for practice purpose. The best way to see what can work is to practice hard and then to test it. I have tried to use some boxing combos that some swear by and don’t land anything and I’ve made stuff up thats worked really good for me. Test everything then, yes I’ll quote Bruce (as much as I don’t think he’s anything special) “keep what is useful, dicard what is useless” ---
**Author:** ![sunfist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@sunfist](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sunfist)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/34 "2006-10-12T16:35:16Z")
Many moves you see now in kung fu were, back in the day, staple techniques of boxing. Much of what boxers do now was, back in the day, a core part of the kung fu curriculum. They resemble each other too much for one to be branded ‘incorrect’. Having said that, today the average boxer will make short work of the average kung fu player. Different demographics train the respective arts for different reasons, and theres nothing wrong with that. I myself feel kung fu is still very valid as a fighting art, I even feel that (gasp) it contains some material that has been lost in the more sportive arts. However, if you want to make your kung fu effective, you may want to consider sound investment in a pair of boxing gloves. ---
**Author:** ![Ben\_Gash](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/ben_gash/32/34_2.png) [@Ben\_Gash](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Ben_Gash)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:46pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/35 "2006-10-12T16:46:39Z")
My Backfist is easily as strong as my right cross. ---
**Author:** ![SevenStar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sevenstar/32/114_2.png) [@SevenStar](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SevenStar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/36 "2006-10-12T16:54:36Z")
[QUOTE=bodhitree;712223]I’ve actually seen a lot of boxers (and do it myself) turn a missed jab into a backfist or hammerfist. It will land to get you the point, disorient your opponent and make them more vulnerable to more strikes, and makes them think you are faster than you really are. This doesn’t look like a backfist, and isn’t thrown from way back at the face (like I said it usually starts out as a jab)[/QUOTE] When have you seen a boxer backfist? the backfist has been illegal in boxing for years. These days, you may have seen a quick second jab after missing, but not a backfist. ---
**Author:** ![Yao\_Sing](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/yao_sing/32/739_2.png) [@Yao\_Sing](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Yao_Sing)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/37 "2006-10-12T17:01:07Z")
[QUOTE=SevenStar;712234]the backfist has been illegal in boxing for years.[/QUOTE] Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![SevenStar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sevenstar/32/114_2.png) [@SevenStar](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SevenStar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/38 "2006-10-12T17:30:47Z")
my guess is because the glove has less padding back there. The majority of the padding is on the fist. the backfist is illegal, as is the pivot punch - a spinning backfist - and the bolo punch - which is a diagonal strike done with the bottom of the fist. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cloud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Green\_Cloud](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Green_Cloud)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/39 "2006-10-12T17:33:56Z")
[QUOTE=SevenStar;712201]an extended hook? I thought it struck with the forearm? Or are you referring to the trajectory. As for the name - I agree. Like I said in the initial post, a punch is a punch. But if you ask chuck, he won’t call it a fon guk. That is what prompted my response. He wasn’t using good cma. He was using a good punch. period.[/QUOTE] Yes I was referring to the trajectory. And did you ask Chuck where he picked it up or what it’s called. Maybe if you ever get to interview chuck that would be an interesting topic. Anyway I agree a good punch is a good punch I’m not disputing wether it’s a CMA tech. I was only clarifying what it’s called in CMA. ---
**Author:** ![SevenStar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sevenstar/32/114_2.png) [@SevenStar](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/SevenStar)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 5:36pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659/40 "2006-10-12T17:36:41Z")
[QUOTE=Ben Gash;712232]My Backfist is easily as strong as my right cross.[/QUOTE] slower also, most likely. unless you are talking about a snapping backfist, in which case I’d call BS. [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/tuf-season-4-question/37659.md?page=3)