this is why I corrected them and said ball of the foot on the roundhouse thread but i got argued with so I stopped becuse everyone thinks they are masters…
After WWII the children of American servicemen were taught to kick with the top of their foot in Japan so they wouldn’t hurt each other.
Interesting do you have any documentation of that.
this is why I corrected them and said ball of the foot on the roundhouse thread but i got argued with so I stopped becuse everyone thinks they are masters
I have bunions so I can’t do a round house kick like that without hurting my big toe. You know the only place I was taught that was Shaolin-do 
I am with Bawang on this one. I believe it is all in the way one conditions the tools of combat. The following clip shows Uechi Ryu karate (a style which is closely connected to Southern Chinese kung fu) experts using their toes, shins and other limbs to break (and shins) to break pieces of wood.
Iron palm/fist/body are part and parcel of traditional kung fu training and should be practised together with the other aspects.
[QUOTE=mickey;916102]Greetings,
What is really dying out with CMA are their kicking sciences. A lot of those “instep” kicks are supposed to be using the toes as a weapon to hit tender spots. I posted a link to a 3 part article a few years ago that addressed toe kicks. I just want to let you know that I went through 12 gates of Hades to find it.
Here it is:
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39732&highlight=tan+tui+related
I hope you will find it useful.
mickey[/QUOTE]
Who’s CMA are you talking about? Bak Siu Lum’s kicks are alive and well.
That video didn’t play very well.
Find a video where they use the top of the foot to break anything, then you’ll have some thing relevant to the conversation.
I did see him hitting is toes with the board, but I didn’t see him break anything with them. How many times has he broken his toes? Just because some karateka’s would break their fingers to make their knuckles bigger doesn’t make that kind of conditioning a good idea.
No one here is saying anything negative about the use of shins and it’s irrelevant to a conversation about he weakness of the foot.
[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;916272]That video didn’t play very well.
Find a video where they use the top of the foot to break anything, then you’ll have some thing relevant to the conversation.
I did see him hitting is toes with the board, but I didn’t see him break anything with them. How many times has he broken his toes? Just because some karateka’s would break their fingers to make their knuckles bigger doesn’t make that kind of conditioning a good idea.
No one here is saying anything negative about the use of shins and it’s irrelevant to a conversation about he weakness of the foot.[/QUOTE]
Here is another link. At 0.38 you can see the master break boards with his toes. The point of the link is to demonstrate that if you can condition your toes to do breaking then perhaps you can condition your top of the foot to take stronger impacts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWfXX5aQhjc&feature=related
Of course, you can still use top of the foot kicks to the side of the neck and other soft targets, if your MA uses such kicks.
Of course there is always the option of using the ball or the heel of your foot that can generally give you more destructive power (generally speaking).
This depends on the forum in which you are kicking. My first KF teacher was also a Black Belt in TKD, which is why I kick with the top of my foot alot.
In sparring, amateur fighting, you have padding on your feet. This is really not an issue.
If you are fighting MMA with no instep protection, you might feel mor comfortable striking with the shin.
If I am walking down the street, I will throw a kick using the top of my foot, I have sneakers (or even better boots) on and that will be enough protection for me.
[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;916105]That really says it all. While there are risks to most forms of conditioning, broken bones shouldn’t be one of them.
There is a good reason these methods have died.
They just aren’t worth the effort put into them.
I could see a toe kick to the throat though, as we have in mantis. :o
I believe the inch kick is also suppose to be a toe kick to the ankle but that makes no sense to me. [/QUOTE]
I`ve seen a Uechi Ryu karate teacher here in Japan who does barefoot kicks with the end of his big toe and dents car doors. He kicks bowling balls and does many breaking demos with that kick.
I knew a Silat teacher in Ohio who did finger tip breaks to the front , rear, and both sides. Most of his students could do them as well.
A small anatomical weapon like a toe or a one-knuckle punch, PROPERLY conditioned, is like hiotting someone with a ball-peen hammer. It doles out serious pain.
As for the toe kick to the ankle, Have you ever had your side kick blocked by a downward punch to the side of your ankle? I couldn`t stand let alone fight. My Choy Lee Fut teacher used to do a foot switch (Switching from right foot forward to left foot forward or vice-versa) that was really a jumpimg side kick delivered to the ankle. He`d jump and switch, and land in a low bow stance with the weight on the back foot. I never got to where I could do it smoothly, but the guys in the class that did could break patio blocks with that kick.
also take into account footwear.
many chinese practitioners wore boots. many modern humans wear footware as well. I know the shoes im wearing now i could kick something pretty hard with the top of my foot and be fine.
many times i go to the park to play with my friends the trees. with shoes on i do repeated roundhouses with the top of my foot on the tree. pretty hard. Yes i can feel it, but It doesnt damage me so much when i am wearing shoes.
ive had my ribs fractured by a round house that connected withe the top of the foot. the guy was wearing shoes, and was not injured to any noticable degree.
i kept fighting till our match was over, but i can tell you the next few weeks for me were fun…
this is also part of the reason u see CMA guys smacking the top of their foot with snap kick line drills. and kicking hard things with it as well. over years you foot gets tough enough to use the top of the foot for CERTAIN attacks.
Traditional Taekwon-do uses the ball of the foot for roundhouses hicks.
TJA all use the ball of the for for roundhouse kicks.
Only time the top of the foot (instep) is used is when it is the “kin geri”, which is a groin kick.
It MAY be used in the round ( not round house) kick at times, though the preferred area is the lower shin.
The toe is used in the front kick and in the “angled” sometimes called “triangle” kick to the inner thigh.
[QUOTE=bawang;916125]you can say the same thing about the fists man
the fists is pretty fragile at beginning tooo[/QUOTE]
i was jsut about to say
You can make the same argument about the backfist. lol.
[QUOTE=Shaolinlueb;916469]i was jsut about to say
You can make the same argument about the backfist. lol.[/QUOTE]
A Karate friend of mind broke his hand in a “ridge hand” strike.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;916474]A Karate friend of mind broke his hand in a “ridge hand” striking.[/QUOTE]
My old TKD instructor broke a "flying " brick with a ridge hand strike.
my old TKD instructor broke a “flying monkey”, with the back of his fist. :eek:
[QUOTE=Shaolinlueb;916512]my old TKD instructor broke a “flying monkey”, with the back of his fist. :eek:[/QUOTE]
My old TKD instructor once hit a guy so hard, he regained his virginity !
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;916516]My old TKD instructor once hit a guy so hard, he regained his virginity ![/QUOTE]
my old TKD isntructor once hit a lady so hard she gave birth to 10 kids, and she wasnt even pregor’s!
ok nvm, i never took TKD
[QUOTE=Shaolinlueb;916520]ok nvm, i never took TKD[/QUOTE]
That much was obvious, given your lack of Kiyap !
A true TKD’ist would have known that only a jumping spinning reverse hook kick in the pike formation, could break a flying monkey.
Back fists are left for badgers, chipmunks and other assorted woodland creatures.
ok you know nothing everyone knows backfists are for fighting orangatangs and large marsupials
what a glorified kickboxer :mad: very angry face
[QUOTE=bawang;916581]ok you know nothing everyone knows backfists are for fighting orangatangs and large marsupials
what a glorified kickboxer :mad: very angry face[/QUOTE]
You Sir, have the boorish manners of a Yale man !
:mad: