I’ve heard more than once here that throws don’t do as much damage as many CMA practitioners claim, and that they never end MMA fights between high level opponents.
According to Sherdog,
Vanderlei Silva defeated Kazushi Sakuraba by TKO (Sakuraba could not continue. His shoulder was dislocated when Silva slammed him to escape a guillotine choke). 10:00, 1R
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
same thing happened in UFC 34 this weekend, Carlos Newton had Matt Hughes in a tight triangle choke (Matt was standing when Newton locked it). Matt slammed Newton to the canvas isntantly knocking Newton out That shows the slam is powerfull, funny sidenote though, it appears that Matt Hughes also passed out at the same moment (propably from the choke), he just came to a few seconds later and Newton was still out, so Matt got the win That’s at least how it looks like on tape.
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
Cool, it looked as much like he just dropped Newton becuase of the choke as much as it looked like a throw. I can’t see much of the moment of impact as it got blurry, but it looked like Newton landed on his back. I guess his head must have bounced a bit but I’m still surprised he went out like that.
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
The Newton Hughes fight may possibly come under review
According to ADCC News, it may be reviewed by a committee in Las Vegas, as it is possible that Hughes passed out, thus causing the fall that KO’d Newton. Whatever the result, a rematch is certainly in order. It is a hard call either way. I am thinking that the most fair thing may be to declare a no-contest, vacate the title, and let Newton and Hughes fight again for the belt. But slams have stopped many fights, Igor v Shamrock, Tito v Tanner, Silva v Sak, and Newton v Hughes. However, I think submission is still highest ont he list of reasons for stoppage according to stats compiled from UFC and Pride, with KO/TKO from strikes being second. I will,however, continue to practice my takedowns/throws.
Clydeus Maximus: Mutt-fu Grand Master and Dominator of Cocky Teenagers in my youth group.
Well then I say that’s bullsh!t. The guy that immediately gets up, never really even goes all the way down, is cleary the victor over the guy still laying on the mat unconcious. Call it playground rules, but that just makes sense to me. (But man Newton got that choke in deep, didn’t he.)
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
I have the entire event on tape, and while Hughes is putting on his t-shirt you can clearly hear him say twice “I was out”. It is plain as day. So if the man was unconcious, the fight should have stopped there. But, Hughes had Carlos up on the fence, he collapsed (if this is what really happened) and the fall KO’d Newton. Thus the KO did not come from any effort or technique applied by Hughes, but by chance. What if Newton threw a punch that KO’d Hughes, and then Hughes fell into Newton causing him to stumble and fall, thus getting knocked out, too. Hughes did not obtain a knock out from his own effort, but by chance, so why would he get the win? I am not agreeing either way, Just observing that it was a questionable ending. What if they had started a 10 count. I don’t think either fighter would have gotten up to beat it, resulting in a double KO. I do not think you can take the belt away from Hughes, but did he really beat Newton? I think the only just thing is a rematch for the title, ASAP. This is really not a situation that has had to be dealt with within the UFC before. Oh, and the review is not being done by the UFC, but is being looked into by the Nevada Commission. At least that is my understanding.
Clydeus Maximus: Mutt-fu Grand Master and Dominator of Cocky Teenagers in my youth group.
schizo-phre-nia: a psychotic mental illness that is characterised by a twisted view of the real world, by a greatly reduced ability to carry out one’s daily tasks, and by abnormal ways of thinking, feeling, and behaving.
However, I think submission is still highest ont he list of reasons for stoppage according to stats compiled from UFC and Pride, with KO/TKO from strikes being second. I will,however, continue to practice my takedowns/throws.
That’s definately true Clyde. But you need to think of how many fighters specialize in throws vs. subs or strikes. That might change things. Then again, it might not.
Most actions of men can be explained by observing a pack of dogs. Not wild dogs, just neighborhood dogs who all scurry under the fence on the same night and set off together to reclaim a glimmer of the glory their species possessed before domestication.
And they should be an integral part of anyone (and especially a submission specialists) over all game. However, all the takedowns that I have seen result in a KO were genreally “get the underhooks, pick up, and slam”. The KO comes as a result of either the opponents head hitting the mat, or from the throwers head slamming into the opponents jaw at impact. I will agree that this takes skill in obtaining good position, good base, getting the underhooks, etc… But in most cases there was also a substantial size/strength advantage too.
Now, in a competition setting (ie UFC, PRide, etc…), where you are in a ring/on a mat, proper falling technique can go a long way in avoiding getting taken out by a throw/takedown. I know on a hard surface it is a different story, but we are talking MMA here. So I believe that fights ending due to take downs will remain in a minority. We have had a huge inflow of wrestlers, people who live and die by the takedown, and still submission and KO remain the top fight finishers.
What does that tell us. Learn takedowns, use them effectively, but don’t start discounting striking and submissions. Bottom line, if you are a submission guy, you need to get the fight to the ground to finish it. Flopping to guard ain’t the way to go today. IF you cannot get them there any other way, sure, do what works, but seems to me it would be so much better to have strong takedowns that would land you in a dominate position on a somewhat stunned opponent. Uhm… ramble…ramble…babble…babble<Br>
I originally had a point to this, but I forgot where I was going with this post, so I’ll stop now.
Clydeus Maximus: Mutt-fu Grand Master and Dominator of Cocky Teenagers in my youth group.
That shows the slam is powerfull, funny sidenote though, it appears that Matt Hughes also passed out at the same moment (propably from the choke), he just came to a few seconds later and Newton was still out, so Matt got the win 
