http://www.uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/elements_of_fajin_in_uechiryu.htm
Re: The Wing Chun Karate Connection
Very things starts with White Crane from Fujian. Nothing new …
(Kermit the Frog voice) Someday we’ll find it…the Wing Chun Connection…
Hendrik is correct. Read the Bubishi. Fujian effected Okinawan and Guangdong MA.
I have met Alex Co,
His 5 ancestor fist kung fu could very likely be the ancestor of Karate. Check out the book.
David
Uechi Ryu is more likely connected to Southern Mantis probably Chow or Chu.
Chi sau
I’m not sure which one but either Wado-Ryu or Uechi-Ryu has something similar to chi sau.
I read somewhere that the symbols that mean empty hand in japanese (Karate) also mean “china hand”
Similarities can be seen between Goju and Hung Gar, Fujian White Crane and others.You don’t need to be an historian in the field to see the inter-connections between all the chinese martial arts.They all share many common things.
If I remember well,there were two distinct styles of Karate in the Okinawan beginnings. One was a strong and compact style called; shorei and, a more fluid and mobile style called ;shorin…I think!!!..Shorin is the japanese for “shaolin” as we all know!
Goju came from the shorei branch as kyokushin and others and shotokan,wado and many more came from shorin.
There are also many styles who combine the two original elements.Uechi is one of them as sh ito (the censor won’t allow for ****o!!!) and it’s many offshots.
The only Wing Chun thing I can see in Karate is the Uechi vertical fist.I never saw chi-sau in Karate but White Crane has sticky hands in a way.
Old Jong
I remember seeing an article by Hidy Ochia (sp)? and the chi sau exercises in his art. I’ll look for the article to see if it was Wado-Ryu or not. I’m not really sure but one of them has chi sau for sure.
Phil.
It is interresting!
If I remember ,Wado ryu was founded by a certain Otsuka who was a student of shotokan founder ;Funakoshi Gishin.
Otsuka was primarely a Jujutsu expert who introduced a more “soft” approach to his style of Karate.
Wado ryu was also the first true japanese style of karate without background in Okinawa or founded by a non Okinawan.
(Funakoshi was Okinawan)
Southern Mantis is essentially a Fujian system not too far removed from White Crane.
Mythical origins of Ming royal family aside, the Hakka (no real connection to the Ming) were a people of the central plains driven south by the strife of invasion. They lived in Fujian for a time, where the helped the Qing battle with the Hokkien. When this didn’t work out, they were forced into Guangdong and Guangxi. This may well be where the ‘Southern Shaolin’ legends come from: the Hakka using the name much as they used ‘Southern Mantis’ (which had no connection to Wang Lang’s Mantis proper).
Given ethnocentrism and xenophobia, it’s likely Okinawans learned sets rather than systems, and most likely simple sets such as the numbered ones still found today (like San Jian/Sanchin), etc.
Hello,
Wado Ryu is a modern art. Its a combo of a few Karate systems from Japan.
Ueichi would be more south chinese looking but unfortunately is very hard! They have some two man set that would be similar to Chi Sao but harder. Forgive the spelling but I think they are called; Katickitai (sounds like: Kah Tick E Tai). Over here we have George Matson who was one of the early or first Americans to learn and teach Ueichi.
On another note. The numerology of Uechi is identical to the numerology of South Mantis taught by Lam Sang of Jook Lum Gee.
Last but not least is what Rene mentioned. The story of the Chu Gar “Ming Royal Family” boxing was nothing that was not heard of before Lao Siu began teaching in 1949 using that name.
They are all Fukien related arts. Even the Jook Lum Gee South Mantis was supposed to come from (or shall I say “settle around”) the Mt. Dragon & Tiger (Lung Fu Shan) on the northern boarder of Kwangsai and Fujian.
Regards,
Jim
Jim,
So was it Ueichi Ryu that has the chi sau “looking” drills?
I wasn’t really sure in the first place. I do remember an old article in IKF or BB that linked WC to another Japanese or Okinawan style.
Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Jim,
So was it Ueichi Ryu that has the chi sau “looking” drills?
I wasn’t really sure in the first place. I do remember an old article in IKF or BB that linked WC to another Japanese or Okinawan style.
I’ve seen some single cross-hand sticking drills from Goju, I believe.
Hey Phil!
Yes! It was Uechi! Certainly one can link WC, Okinawan and other South Chinese arts as they all seem to share that Fukien Crane type art as their base.
The Ueichi people around here have done some extensive research over the years. Most think they come from a South Chinese art known as Pun Guy Noon. Its supposed to be some form of Crane. Next time they bring out someone I may visit as they have seminars with people from PGN.
See ya,
Jim is correct in that the Ming myth is likely modern, same as most martial myths. Romantic and all, but not historical.
Uechi saying
I subscribe to a mailing list run by Lloyd Irvin, a BJJ Black Belt. Today he sent me this:
In every grappling club throughout the World there are sheep and there are tigers.
What are you? What do you want to be?
Look around your club and see if you know who the tigers are and who the sheep are.
Training: Tigers and Sheep
Sometimes karate training can be called training as a tiger or training as a sheep. If you train as a tiger – hard training and body conditioning – you can always train with tigers. Other tigers will also recognize you and you can train in peace with them. They know that when two tigers really fight that one will die of injuries today and the other will die of injuries tomorrow. Both will die, so they have nothing to prove.
If you train like a sheep – no contact and no two-man conditioning – then you can only train with sheep. A tiger can train with tigers and he can also train with sheep. He just has to be careful not to hurt them. A sheep cannot train with tigers. Sheep see tigers as being very frightening and their conditioning, he says, will cause cancer. A sheep training with tigers will get eaten up.
Sometimes you see a sheep who sees the truth of tiger training and changes. In reality this sheep was actually a tiger in sheep’s clothing waiting to come out.
Watch people training. Look at how they act and how they behave. A tiger can be like a little kitty but dangerous even though he is friendly. They are quiet and watch everything. They listen and watch. They know who they are and they have nothing to prove – they are at peace.
Sheep, on the other hand, make all kinds of noises and demand to be heard. They run around and seem to crave attention. They are easily hurt and easily scared. They always group together for their own protection. When danger approaches they look towards the group for protection because they cannot defend themselves. They are easy prey for tigers – whether it is one sheep or several, sheep are still sheep.
– Ryuko Tomoyose, Uechi-ryu
Andrew
Thanks dude.
I’m printing this out for my guys. The wording is perfect especially the last paragraph. 
Certainly there’s a resurgence of more tactile hand skills in the UK seeming to stem from Pat McCarthy. I’ve come across it in Some Shotokan and Shindo Karate groups.
Tegumi drills are snippets of the sort of extrapolations that WC people so regularly practice.
Karate - Kung Fu connection
There has been quite a bit of research into the connection between Kung Fu and Karate. There’s an interesting book in Chinese called “Dong Fang Ge Dou Shu Da Guan” by Liang Minshu that has a bunch of cool diagrams and charts. Of course, I tend to take Chinese research with a grain of salt, since they always want to take credit for everything-- like the introduction of spaghetti into Italy by Marco Polo, or the founding of North America by Zheng He.
Generally, though, it seems that most Okinawan styles were influenced by Fujian styles (as many have pointed out); as opposed to the Aikijujitsu forms which were indigenous to Japan’s bushi warrior class (though many Chinese say it evolved from Northern styles of Kung Fu).
Shotokan founder Gichin Funakoshi talks about the origin of the term “karate,” where the “kara” was originally the same Chinese character for “tang” (a la Tang Dynasty), which denoted Chinese stuff (like “kara-age”, Chinese fried chicken..mmmmm)-- later, it evolved to another “kara,” the character “kong” for empty.
Funakoshi discusses two families of two Okinawan Karate that evolved from a merging of Okinawan dance and Chinese martial styles-- Shuri style and Naha style. Apparently, they did not mix that much, and from his book, he made it seemed like they were REALLY far away from each other. Imagine my surprise when I visited Okinawa this summer and found out that you could walk from Naha port to Shuri in about 10 minutes…
It seemed to be the trend at that particular time in history (1920s-1940s) for the Japanese to systemize their fighting arts-- seeing them more as a way of life than an art of fighting because of increasing efficiency of firearms (“why doesn’t someone just take a gun and bang, finish it?”). So all the “jutsu” (“shu”, or arts) became “do” (“dao” or roads). Jigiro Kano standardized Judo from the diverse techniques of Aikijujitsu; while Morihei Ueshiba took the same techniques and came up with Aikido. Funakoshi created a style that was later named Shotokan (after the place he taught); and So Doshin created Shorinji Kempou, supposedly based on his knowledge of Aikijujitsu and looking at murals at the Shaolin Temple. Kenjitsu became Kendo, Kyujitsu (archer) became Kyudo, and so forth and so on.
But then, there was lots of fragmentation (like Yip Man Wing Chun!), where exceptional practitioners branched off with new styles-- like Mas Oyama creating Kyoukushin after learning from Funakoshi; and after his death, the fragmenting of Kyoukushin into Oyamakai, Seidokai, and Shiseikai. Or how Aikido now has the Tomikikai and the Morihei’s stuff recognized by the Honbu in Tokyo.
I have this manuscript translated from Chinese that someone sent me that talked about the histories of various families of Karate and their ties to specific styles of Kung Fu. If I can dig it up, I’ll pass on the choice bits…
But of course, all the connections and history is moot. We all know that Chinese Boxing rocks Karate. Saint Bruce proved it in the Chinese Connection, afterall.
Which probably explains why Chinese martial arts are gaining popularity in Japan now 