Some people on the planet , actually many, take their religion formats 100% serious. Whatâs at stake can be everything someone lives for if they believe what they do, say, and think will alter the outcome of a desired goal/destination. For a person of Native Chinese Ancestry to live in China practicing Christian or Vedic/Hindu Faith ~ seems like it could automatically be a strain on them, likewise for a Native Indian to be a Christian in India. Of course there are communities with support systems in place but I would think that most Chinese living in China, especially the mainland would automatically assume that American tourists are Christians if they are religious or maybe Buddhists, if they stay awhile and speak the language. In any case, this movie sums it up nicely for those of you who have not seen it yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diyTWCwGSzg
I am a Christian, devout as a matter of fact.
I have a Bach, in Business and Mech engineering.
I do NOT view the bible as âlower levelâ.
I also have a masters in Theological studies, my major being in NT teachings.
The issue with religion doesnât exist.
The only real issue is with ORGANIZED religion and people that are TOLD by others in power, others with things to lose, that they must believe âXâ and are to lazy to find out for themselves what the bible ACTUALLY says and why.
If you donât care enough to learn and study about something as complex is the bible, then donât go around discussing it.
Religion is simply a set of beliefs in, typically, the supernatural, so ANYONE that has beliefs IS religious.
To go around blaming religion for peopleâs stupidity is like blaming baseball for when your team loses.
Organized religion is when a small group of people decide for others what THEY ( these others) are suppose to believe and do and they ( these others) follow them, almost blindly at times.
I canât begin to list home many doctrines in some organized christian religions have ZERO to do with the teachings of Christ and the Apostles and how easy it is to see that IF people wpould simply just read the very book they profess to hold so dear.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1288143]I am a Christian, devout as a matter of fact.
Organized religion is when a small group of people decide for others what THEY ( these others) are suppose to believe and do and they ( these others) follow them, almost blindly at times.
QUOTE]
That would = Politics to my reasoning.
Well wrote post. I agree.
here is another story about the brilliance of Christianity. Back in the states over a decade ago I was working as a trainer in the gym. One of the other trainers a black girl and I somehow got into the religion topic. I mention reincarnation, she isnt havent it[God forbid someone has a different point of view]she states God doesnt recycle souls and quickly walks away. first off,a little catch phrases proves nothing, second in the Hindu religion the first most basic of all principles is to know you are not this material body but pure spirit soul. The soul never changes but the body does [unless you return to the spiritual world aka heaven where you get a spiritual body and soul and body are one and the same].so she does not distinguish between the body and soul. this would be equivalent to a kindergarten level of religion. Now I wouldnt have a problem with people believing in these primitive beliefs if they didnt constantly tell me my religion is fake and only theirs is the real one.
I remember another Christian or two mentioning animals have no souls, again not being able to distinguish between body and soul. Being that matter has no consciousness and it is the soul that animates the body.
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1288145]here is another story about the brilliance of Christianity. Back in the states over a decade ago I was working as a trainer in the gym. One of the other trainers a black girl and I somehow got into the religion topic. I mention reincarnation, she isnât havenât it[God forbid someone has a different point of view]she states âGod doesnât recycle soulsâ and quickly walks away. first off,a little catch phrases proves nothing, second in the Hindu religion the first most basic of all principles is to know you are not this material body but pure spirit soul. The soul never changes but the body does [unless you return to the spiritual world aka heaven where you get a spiritual body and soul and body are one and the same].so she does not distinguish between the body and soul. this would be equivalent to a kindergarten level of religion. Now I wouldnât have a problem with people believing in these primitive beliefs if they didnât constantly tell me my religion is fake and only theirs is the real one.
I remember another Christian or two mentioning animals have no souls, again not being able to distinguish between body and soul. Being that matter has no consciousness and it is the soul that animates the body.[/QUOTE]
You shouldnât confuse the ignorance of a believer with what a religion actually states.
It is a sad statement on Christianity that the majority of the people that tend to be âvocal Christiansâ tend to be very ignorant of their own faith.
Of course I have found this in ALL ideologies also, soâŚ
I think you need to stop trying to make Christianity look like a âlow level religionâ when you donât know much about it other than what you THINK you know via 3rd party views.
You are in a MA forum, I would think you would be painfully aware of the dangers of uninformed opinion trying to be passed of as educated understanding.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1288146]You shouldnât confuse the ignorance of a believer with what a religion actually states.
It is a sad statement on Christianity that the majority of the people that tend to be âvocal Christiansâ tend to be very ignorant of their own faith.
Of course I have found this in ALL ideologies also, soâŚ
I think you need to stop trying to make Christianity look like a âlow level religionâ when you donât know much about it other than what you THINK you know via 3rd party views.
You are in a MA forum, I would think you would be painfully aware of the dangers of uninformed opinion trying to be passed of as educated understanding.[/QUOTE]
I got myself slapped around for spouting off about WC. LOL, I like those guys !
Yeah, WizC, I understand your anger and resentment but many of us are considerate and understanding of others beliefs. And there is a great deal in most religions that are at their core teachings , basically the same. My belief anyway. Others opinionâs will vary. I just think for the most part we all want the same things and believe pretty much the same way. Do your best to be good and not hurt others and be kind and giving and gracious and it is just to numerous to list. We are after all, all of us, human.
[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1288161]I got myself slapped around for spouting off about WC. LOL, I like those guys !
Yeah, WizC, I understand your anger and resentment but many of us are considerate and understanding of others beliefs. And there is a great deal in most religions that are at their core teachings , basically the same. My belief anyway. Others opinionâs will vary. I just think for the most part we all want the same things and believe pretty much the same way. Do your best to be good and not hurt others and be kind and giving and gracious and it is just to numerous to list. We are after all, all of us, human.[/QUOTE]
The one thing I have found is that every ideology has their extremists, those that believe that THEIR way is the ONLY way.
Here is something that organized religion doesnât want you to know and that is that YOU decide and YOU have to answer for it ( whatever that may mean).
In regards to Christianity:
Christians believe that Christ is the only path to salvation, that no other way will get you saved.
But saved from what?
Some, perhaps many, will say âsaved from hellâ or âsaved from eternal ****ationâ and all that other stuff.
BUT what does the bible EXPLICITLY state?
Belief in Christ saves you from JUDGMENT.
What happens to those that do not believe?
They are judged base don their actions.
Biblical proof of this?
Why, right here:
Gospel of John, Chapter 5:
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
25 âTruly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
Of course it is convenient for some to keep this from people, to make them believe they must do this and that, that they must belong to this and that, so that they may be contolled and so that thos ewiht power, keep that power.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1288165]The one thing I have found is that every ideology has their extremists, those that believe that THEIR way is the ONLY way.
Here is something that organized religion doesnât want you to know and that is that YOU decide and YOU have to answer for it ( whatever that may mean).
In regards to Christianity:
Christians believe that Christ is the only path to salvation, that no other way will get you saved.
But saved from what?
Some, perhaps many, will say âsaved from hellâ or âsaved from eternal ****ationâ and all that other stuff.
BUT what does the bible EXPLICITLY state?
Belief in Christ saves you from JUDGMENT.
What happens to those that do not believe?
They are judged base don their actions.
Biblical proof of this?
Why, right here:
Gospel of John, Chapter 5:
24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
25 âTruly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
Of course it is convenient for some to keep this from people, to make them believe they must do this and that, that they must belong to this and that, so that they may be contolled and so that thos ewiht power, keep that power.[/QUOTE]
I agree. We are already saved. How do they miss that ? Why can people not THINK ? Or it is okay to have faith in 'Ill go the hell" But not to believe, you are already saved dude, lets move on -?
Or as WizC pointed out about FEAR of God. It does not mean be afraid of God but to RESPECT God. It can also mean or is being used to point out that ine that does not follow this rule may suffer immediate consequences. As in, do not covet they neighbors wife. Not because you are going to burn in hell but you may be burnt at the stake by the community if you fail to heed that suggestion. So ie, FEAR that stuff. Not because God will cause you eternal suffering but because your fellow man will hurt you bad.
Or, to give you life for a friend is the highest form of love and if you could do that the only thin left to fear would be God. Meaning ? Well, Iâll let others decide that for themselves.
We are not to be AFRAID of God. We are to respectful and awestruck really. Lets imgine this. If God showed up in any other form but that which we are used to, I think we all would be pretty afraid then. As in FEARFUL and ARFRAID. If he told you, do not fear me I have not come to hurt you and one way or another you believed him. You would show him respect at first out of fear and later - probably out of love. And that my friends is what it is all about. LOVE !
Here are some Bible passages about Love. I will let anyone interested figure out what they mean to themselves. What do these versus mean ? Could they also be interpreted other ways ? How many meanings can we use for the word Love ? Imagine if we actually achieved that state all the time. What else could we possibly be ready to learn next? Would we see things or understand things different ? I really do not know. I still have trouble with love. LOL. Man, my heart is full of hate. But I do strive to drop that stuff.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/love-bible-verses/
I subscribe to no religion at all.
I am ok with Jesus though. I like what is written about his teaching.
The people I notice to be very religious tend to have other troubles in their lives and other fears about life in general.
Fervency and fanaticism being a sure sign that something is not sitting quite right upstairs. This applies to all zealots in all organized religions or other. So, Hindus sitting with their arms in the air until the thing is useless and atrophied? Man, you are harming yourself. Buddhists who apply religious dogma and doctrine to what is otherwise a simple message and then, in the name of the Buddha kill others to enforce property for their own populations of like minded fellows? Yeah, they are doing it wrong too. Muslims who go to extremes and take jihad into the real world instead of the metaphysical struggle it is intended to be, that is not in keeping with the Qâuran and on and on the wheel spins.
There are basic truths in being a human being and walking around living a life. All teachers, prophets, lords and ladies on upper levels of consciousness & knowing have pointed it out to us for all time.
Live by their example, not by trying to shove it down someone elseâs throat. If we can live in harmony, it will be because we keep our beliefs to ourselves.
There is contradiction in all religious texts of all faiths. Just like there are contradictions in how your think and feel about life compared to how you have truthfully and actually led your life.
Hypocrites tend to be the loudest in trying to convince you their game is the only game. There is that.
Boxerbilly, you in my opinion behave the way a Christian should. turn the other cheek thing surely means have tolerance, and not to constantly point fingers at others who believe in anything other than you and tell them they will burn in hell for eternity. And sure there are some wacky things in Hinduism, but I donât see them bothering other people which is the point here.
There are many forms of Hinduism, the one I practice teaches rules like no gambling, no meat eating ,no sex for the sake of fun[I havenât yet conquered this one] no intoxication, basically love of God, self realization and detachment to this world and attachment to the spiritual. I can mention so many reason why God says not to eat meat, but I never preach to anyone that they should be a vegetarian. If you meat eaters out there were constantly being harassed by Hindus telling you in your next life you will have to pay with your life and karma will have you go into an animal body and be killed for meat, I am pretty sure sooner or later you will start to hate this religion. I saw in the news recently the lady that refused to give a marriage license to a gay couple based on her Christian beliefs, come on tough skin or not this **** gets annoying.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1288143]
I do NOT view the bible as âlower levelâ.[/QUOTE]
Wiz has a very low level understanding of Christianity, so he superimposes his ignorance on an entire religion. But frankly, if he canât see the glaring hypocrisy of his original post, no amount of common sense from you can help him. I only pray he doesnât do too much to tarnish the reputations of Hindus the world over.
[QUOTE=Jimbo;1288128] the angry, Caucasian, bearded giant sitting on a throne up in the clouds, waiting for any little infraction on my part to throw a childish tantrum and punish me.[/QUOTE]
kettledrum will be praying to him for my soul
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1288185]kettledrum will be praying to him for my soul[/QUOTE]
You wonât be so insolent when the Yamaduta take you to Naraka.
But seriously, I want better than âkettledrum.â
Basically he is telling me I am going to hell in Hindu terms. a Christian telling someone they are going to hell, what a surprise
Re: Christian tolerance ( or lackthereof).
The reality is that we are ALL intolerant and we are ALL tolerant.
It depends on whether our beliefs are being attacked in a moderate or aggressive manner.
I disagree with Gay marriage BUT I would never deny a gay couples right to be married if the law allowed it ( civil marriage).
On the same side, I think it is wrong to deny a religious organization the right to refuse to marry a gay couple if it is against their religious beliefs.
It really is quite obvious that ALL rights need to be respected -
The coupleâs right to wed in a legal ceremony and the churchâs right to refuse in a religious ceremony.
A civil servant does NOT have the right to deny a gay coupleâs wedding application or licence, though they should have the right to not do it themselves , in other words, the person should have removed themselves from the situation and allowed someone else to serve the gay couple.
If we are to respect the rights of the gay couple to wed, then we also have to respect the rights of those that disagree BUT do NOT infringe on anyone elseâs rights.
render to Caesar, that which is Caesarâs.
Christians need to remember that NO ONE converts anyone other than by the Holy Spirit.
All we can do is âpoint the wayâ and preach the word of God and, as St. Francis said: IF we have to, we can even use WORDS for that.
Christians should be looking to lead by example in love, compassion and tolerance, just like the example of the apostles and the first century christians that we have.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1288191]Re: Christian tolerance ( or lackthereof).
The reality is that we are ALL intolerant and we are ALL tolerant.
It depends on whether our beliefs are being attacked in a moderate or aggressive manner.
I disagree with Gay marriage BUT I would never deny a gay couples right to be married if the law allowed it ( civil marriage).
On the same side, I think it is wrong to deny a religious organization the right to refuse to marry a gay couple if it is against their religious beliefs.
It really is quite obvious that ALL rights need to be respected -
The coupleâs right to wed in a legal ceremony and the churchâs right to refuse in a religious ceremony.
A civil servant does NOT have the right to deny a gay coupleâs wedding application or licence, though they should have the right to not do it themselves , in other words, the person should have removed themselves from the situation and allowed someone else to serve the gay couple.
If we are to respect the rights of the gay couple to wed, then we also have to respect the rights of those that disagree BUT do NOT infringe on anyone elseâs rights.
render to Caesar, that which is Caesarâs.
Christians need to remember that NO ONE converts anyone other than by the Holy Spirit.
All we can do is âpoint the wayâ and preach the word of God and, as St. Francis said: IF we have to, we can even use WORDS for that.
Christians should be looking to lead by example in love, compassion and tolerance, just like the example of the apostles and the first century christians that we have.[/QUOTE]
Funny. I think "gay " is wrong. But if I really think about it. it is wrong for me. I donât get it. I donât feel it. I have no sexual attraction to me. I do enjoy hanging with guys and talking ,etc. But, I donât even have time for that any longer. Hence, the virtual world, LOL. All us who would probably never be friends any other way.
Now, if someone is gay and wants to be married. I say, let them. Why should straight people be the only ones to suffer marriage ? BY the way, I have a gay nephew. He is a soldier. Openly gay. Never bothered me. I do ask, he refrain form kissing his boyfriends in my presence but I have seen that to and aside from the YUK my factor for me. My life was not ruined. And I always told him. It is okay to be gay.
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1288187]Basically he is telling me I am going to hell in Hindu terms. a Christian telling someone they are going to hell, what a surprise[/QUOTE]
Iâm simply trying to show respect for your religion. I donât understand the animosity.
[QUOTE=boxerbilly;1288192]Funny. I think "gay " is wrong. But if I really think about it. it is wrong for me. I donât get it. I donât feel it. I have no sexual attraction to me. I do enjoy hanging with guys and talking ,etc. But, I donât even have time for that any longer. Hence, the virtual world, LOL. All us who would probably never be friends any other way.
Now, if someone is gay and wants to be married. I say, let them. Why should straight people be the only ones to suffer marriage ? BY the way, I have a gay nephew. He is a soldier. Openly gay. Never bothered me. I do ask, he refrain form kissing his boyfriends in my presence but I have seen that to and aside from the YUK my factor for me. My life was not ruined. And I always told him. It is okay to be gay.[/QUOTE]
This isnât a thread about the âright and wrongnessâ of ****sexuality, that is obviously a combination of logical and emotional arguments.
I have 3 family members that are gay, not to mention we have a personal friend that is a lesbian ( married with two adopted kids).
It is not an easy issue to deal with in any shape or form.
As Christians we are remind to âhate the sin, love the sinnerâ and we need to remember that ****sexuality is no more or no less than any other sin as well.
If you believe in sin of course ( and Christians do of course).