That Wiccai Witch Guy

I received an e-mail from a forum member last night regarding the thread about Wiccai. After subsequently spending half-an-hour reviewing all sorts of comments about this admittedly new style of martial art, and all sorts of presumptions about myself, its founder, I’ve decided to respond.

I wasn’t shocked so much as disappointed that the thread rapidly spiralled into a diatribe of negative judgments about myself and my theology. Ultimately, it became a thread about satanism.

Rather than engage in discussion within the context of that thread – to which my children have access – I will attempt to briefly address what Wiccai is, who I am and a little about why I have created this style. I will not engage in useless words in defense of my faith or person with reference to the things that were said in the last forum. Although I found some of the postings interesting, for the most part, they were based on a combination of ignorance, intolerance and lack of research.

I am not out to convert anyone, nor change anyone’s religious path. I am not a demon-worshipper. I do not believe in (let alone worship) Satan, and I have never harmed a baby. Nor would I tolerate anyone else doing anything of the sort. Any one of my five children can testify to that.

Nor have I ever charged a single person money for teaching this particular style. Some day I may open a school, but until such time, I am happy with the way things are. I respect most spiritual and martial disciplines and I have a vivid comprehension that many paths lead to the same end.

History of Wiccai. An initiate of Tibetan Buddhism, I was exposed to five animal training, and excelled at it. I trained about 8-10 hours a day for 3 years. Gradually, I altered my faith to Wicca. Once I did so, things changed drastically for me. I stopped training for several months because I thought I might be disrespecting the temple by doing Hung Gar through the eyes of a Wiccan. I started a long search to find a Wiccan martial art system – new or old – and I found none. You’re right, Wiccai is not an ancient style. Nor have I ever claimed it to be. Ultimately, I adapted my prior martial arts training to suit my own personal needs, and subsequently created Wiccai.

A few comments were made suggesting that what I do is watered-down Hung Gar, and some sort of *******ization of the Shaolin temple. Having studied Buddhism and Native traditions, I worked well with animal familiars and totems. It is important to note that many ancient and new systems were directly influenced by the Shaolin temple. No doubt most of the current day grappling and kung fu styles are offshoots of the Temple; do your research. Does this mean they are watered down or illegitimate? Of course not. A martial art system with a sound spiritual core is fullfilling.

If all styles had to come up with their own moves, the martial arts would be in trouble. A lot of what I do looks Shaolin, of course; I still practice Hung Gar. I still do dragon, snake, cat and bird. But in the context of Wiccai, I no longer use crane exclusively: I adapt the same principle movements to create raven, crow, owl and phoenix. I also use stag, scorpion, wolverine, bear, etc. I work with animal totemry primary to augment Wiccai as a healing and personal health system, and secondarily as a self-defense style. Each bird I mentioned may execute a techinique that looks similar to the others, but it is the application of its shen or spirit that drives the intentions and will behind the technique. This is where the five elements also come into the picture.

I work with animals because it makes sense to me to connect to the earth in this way. Although I focus on the basics like punching, kicking, striking, rolling, grappling, breathing etc. it is up to each individual to choose the animals they will work with. I do not force anyone to work with the animals I have chosen for myself. Who taught the masters? It is a lot more than just sitting and watching animals fight. You can read some of my threads at dragonslist.com if you want further clarification of what I am talking about.

I look at fighting a little bit differently than most. I lived on the streets for several years ( not in the way described in the previous thread; I have never been classified as a “hippie” and I do not wear dreadlocks. I do not dye my hair black and I do not wear a black trenchcoat - sorry) and witnessed the maiming of many and the killing of one. I have chosen to learn from these experiences, and therefore I take the fighting arts very seriously. UFC is great and it has its place, however, most bloody street fights have no rules at all.

Have you ever seen another man bite chunks of flesh off of another man’s face? Rip his ear clean off his head? Stick his finger into the eye socket all the way down to the knuckle? I was involved in (and witnessed) fights like this in my youth, and they scared the hell out of me. But I train this way also. Believe me, if I found an intruder in any one of my children’s bedrooms, I would react, fiercely. The animals of Hung Gar and Wiccai will be there with me, punching, grappling, biting, eye-gouging with the sole intention of diffusing and eliminating the danger.

In Wiccai, as with any respectable martial arts system, personal responsibility is paramount. Clear will and intentions directing the force used are crucial. Wiccai is an alternative for pagans or anyone else wanting to learn about working with the animals that they are most connected with. it is a flexible system and it is not meant for everyone - and like I said, I do not seek converts and I do not have a school. I am simply writing a manuscript that deals with Wiccai and several years of magic and healing with animals.

As far as Wicca, if your interested, their are many good internet sites and books. My personal e-mail is in my bio. If you want to know more about me, Wiccai or just discuss animal theory and strategies, feel free.

If you want to make attempts at connecting me and my faith to satan, baby killing and the like, please save your breath. I will not engage in such useless, ignorant activity.

Phoenix Pangaryk

PhoenixPangaryk

I just read your post it was very interesting, i have respect for what you do and i hope you didnt think otherwise.
I hope that you read my comments on you in a favorable light. I never accused your Hung Ga of being ‘watered down’ so i hope that was not directed at me.
Still im sad that the thread turned out the way it did as well, which is why i ceased to post in it.
I respect you phoenix as a fellow martial artist, your religion has no bearing on my view of you. I have no problem with what you do and have respect for anyone who can adapt there art to better suit there lifestyle and enviorment.
Dont let peoples opinion on this board bother you, we are all very skilled at shooting down something we know very little about:rolleyes:
Respects and regards
Jon

P.S I post under the title Lonetiger over at Dragonlist.

Sorry my thread about Wicca turned into a thread about Satanism, i gots nothing against witches. Sorry I dissed your style too. I can respect what your doing. It seems pretty cool now that you explain it.

don’t you think 3 years training is pretty limited, regardless of how many hours per day, to go off and create your own style?

oh .. and im not a satanist, but i do sacrafice animals in the name of richard simmons.

I will not engage in useless words in defense of my faith or person with reference to the things that were said in the last forum.

Didn’t you just do that?

Sorry man, you want to create something then create it from a clean slate.

If you “borrow” something then give full credit for it not half credit or a mention, full credit.

peace

I don’t know about you guys, but I always love posts where people describe themselves as masters.

I also love it when people make all kinds of assumptions about what fights we have and haven’t been in, while preaching to us without preaching.

I further love it when I talk to people and they say “I tried this religion and it didn’t work for me, so I switched to this one for a while, but still didn’t feel right, so eventually I found x, and now I’m going to tell you all about it.” Since all religions teach essentially the same thing at the core, the problem tends not to lie with the religions if you ask me.

Hey man, believe and worship what and how you like. I would never be so ignorant to confuse wicca with satanism, I don’t even confuse true satanism with the worship of satan, but rather a guilt free pursuit to ones desires. Hey, too each their own.

BUT, when it comes to martial arts, that’s another matter.

These are my, not concerns, because I don’t really care and wish you the best, but questions:

1)Being the inventor of a style, do you go by great grandmaster?

  1. Are you basing a new style on a style you have studied for 3 years, no matter how much time spent? the first year, even training 10 hours a day, will be spent training at a low understanding. So, that gives you 2 years of training at a mid-level. Not exactly grandmaster material in ym eyes.

  2. This will **** people off, but as a martial artist, my first concrn is not being in touch with my animal totems or connecting to the earth (though I strive to be connected to the Tao while remaining dissociated to everyone and free) but to fighting skills.

  3. Lastly, if you were a great martial artists (which you should be to be claiming the founder of s syatem), I would think you would have respect for your past lineage: who did you learn what from? Are you a hung gar player, a long fist white crane (that’s Tibetan Buddhist gung fu), what? You must have a background. 5 animals is very vague?

As a martial artists, we here a lot of claims. One can never fully back it up because we can not match hands online, just want a little more depth to why we should take Wicca-fu seriously. Did you make forms? Do you train your students with full power? What is your knowledge of internal? Yes, I have a lot of questions.

Just Curious

When guys like Funakoshi and Wang Lang and the like “invented” their own styles were there other people who said, “What gives you the right?”

And it’s a fair question, come to think of it. But how long must you train and what qualifications must you really have before you can put together a new style and have it accepted? Just wondering…

Hey I did two years of TKD. Maybe I should create MY own style…

PhoenixPangaryk, it was good of you to respond in such a reasonable way. Your style sounds interesting. Would you say it’s a system?

“I do not force anyone to work with the animals I have chosen for myself. Who taught the masters?”

ummmm, masters?

With all due respect i have to go with EvolutionFist’s questions and comments. I’m not trying to start an arguement or disrespect your style. But they are reasonable questions, don’t you agree?

Austin Five Vegetables Quan

just a lark, no need for anyone to take this personally…

Austin Five Vegetables Quan is a fighting system based on the martial spirit of Horseradish (root), Broccoli (flower), Rhubarb (leaf), Cashew (seed) and Tomato (fruit.) After mastering the Five Vegetables, adepts in AFVQ combine the five into one seamless style known as “Salad Bar Do.” What follows is a breif description of each of the Five Fighting Vegetables.

Horseradish - Humble, yet firey. Connected to the earth. Evasive and difficult to detect.

Broccoli - When broccoli is chopped, each smaller piece resembles the broccoli plant as a whole. Therefore, when fighting in the broccoli fist manner, each movement is similar up and down the scale of size. This integrated technique allows for tremendous fajing.

Rhubarb - As Rhubarb is poisonous when raw, yet sweet and delicious when cooked, the Rhubarb Fist is designed to take advantage of the element of surprise. When a wary opponent faces a Rhubarb practitioner the R.P. will switch to a soft, deceptive style that leaves (no pun intened) ‘false’ openings which close shut behind the attacker, as the raw rhubarb spirit re-emerges, bringing back the element of surprise

Cashew - Cashew fist is predicated on the principle that people don’t want to fight someone who is nuts. A very unpredictable style, like drunken boxing.

Tomato - ah forget it, I’ve spent too much time on this silliness already…

Come on guys. Give the guy a break. What he’s doing sounds OK, he’s charging no money or anything.

Remember, everyone who trains has their own interpretation of what they have learnt. I may as well call my style DelicateFu, cause I do some things different from my Sifu.

If this guy wants to combine MA’s and religion - Fine. I’m a Catholic and still love Martial Arts.

Watch out for Catholicai coming soon :smiley:

Only kiddin!

How did witches get associatted with broom sticks? Do you have any rituals using broom sticks? What do you do with broom sticks. I know that it is impossible to fly on broomsticks so what do you use them for?

SOMEONE just let a troll in to the room! Who just did something that stupid? Sick 'im!

Just slap the troll with the same broomstick he’s asking about

Good idea, get over here troll-boy! (smacks ralek over the head)

Boy. I’ll shove that broom stick up yo hiny and open a can of TKD on yo sorry azz.

Witches have been flying on brooms sticks for centuries. It isn’t anything new. Withes also have magic powers and they can fight using thier magic and they have spells that they can use.

Everyone should make what they are studying their own. My way is different then my master’s way, but I’m learning.

All the things I have learned in the past are a part of me and combine to form a unique way, my way. However, now I’m a student again and learning a new way. It will still not be a carbon copy of my master, but adhere to his system’s principles.

Just because its different, I should now claim to be a great grandmaster and rename it as my own.

One can, take different principles they have mastered and come up with a different twist, like aikido, though one could also argue that that is also just incomplete Ba Gua. Good, but not as good as the source, few things are.

I guess I’m trying to say, hey, go with it if that is what you want. BUT, someone like myself will be suspect, because you are not a Yoshiba, or a Lam Say Wing, or a Hung Gar founder with years of training and experience. YOu’re a guy who’s into Wicca who trained for a little while. So, claim a new style, but it will be suspect until you put some big names down with it.

One thing you have going for you, you won’t be challenged by other Wicca-fu players claiming to be the rightful heir to teach. It just sounds silly though. Why not live your Wicca, and teach Lama Pai, or long hand white crane? I think because you are not qualified, and then qualified yourself with a new system.

I could be wrong. If I am, I’m sorry. I don’t know you are your business, it just sounds a bit suspect. If you are a great MA, I think you would understand.

Don’t worry about what any others are saying here, you have made no claims to masterhood, whatever the hell that is, or even worse grandmasterhood, you have been open and honest with your response and that is all that you ever have to give anybody.

Just give credit to where credit is due and don’t fret the other political bs. If your background is true and you have experianced those kinds of violent encounters then that alone is worth more than a handfull of years in “martial” training.

It would be pleasent to see you include some western martial practices into your methodology as your religion is based on western viewpoints but go with the best you have at hand.