some of my belt tests have lasted as long as five hours (and change)…To pay $30 for my shifu’s time and a new sash seems cheap to me.
Our testing fees go up as rank goes up (but I don’t think they ever get past $50), the more material you’re tested on, the more time it takes… makes sense to me.
Also, tests (at least in my school) are not just a check up on your material, they’re a really long, really intense training session…why not pay for that?
[QUOTE=PlumDragon;1077986]A lot of people like to look down at testing fees…But what about those traditional red envelopes? Abused in the same way testing fees are. Northwids example above is another good one–testing fees arent nearly highway robbery on the same level as that.
My students pay me for my time; nothing more and nothing less. I pay my teachers for their time; nothing more and nothing less. No tests, no testing fees, no red envelopes. And as a side topic to this, my teachers have probably bought me more lunches and nights out, etc than I have bought them.[/QUOTE]
my sifu gives me a red envelope with cash in it before every performance… then he buys us lunch after… we pay 60 a month no fees… and we get half of it back in envelopes and food… plus 3 days a week each for four hours or sometimes more depending on the mood… so we get roughly 50 hours, red envelopes, food, use of gear and space for 60 bucks a month… we have shirts but no real uniforms and we never will… we only wear a sash for show and lion dance(coz u need it in lion dance)… there are no levels, just real skill levels and its obvious top everyone who is good at what… we dont need recognition on paper… we are there to learn and grow, not to be recognized… if i wanted that i’d hit up a mc dojo… i dont need to be stroked, i got women for that…
test fees
Sifu Perry told me early on, the reason he set the fees that way, was because the student had not only literally, but figuratively, paid his dues. And at the time of being informed of the upcoming test, knew, and had proven so, the material required. The test, however physical it would be, was, in effect, a formality. And, the student having had the fortitude and commitment to perservere through the demands of the training, was rewarded. And while Sifu Perry charges monthly dues, he enjoys nothing better than teaching a student who is interested and dedicated, as he is. I respect him so much for this.
can anyone tell me what is accomplished with testing??? like whats the point???
i understand richards point, if they want to teach they need some sort of credit… fair enough… but why does a casual or even serious student need testing??? is recognition for hard work and obvious ability not enough???
To make sure they know the material. Sparring etc. does not do this. Let’s say form X has 108 moves. Bob likes 5 of those moves and has practiced them a gazillion times in a gazillion different ways and tends to use about 3 of them consistently well while sparring. Bob shows the proper energy, focus, conditioning, etc. etc. and kicks butt on sparring nights. Does this show that Bob knows form X inside & out? No - so we test Bob and say show us form X…
test fees
I consider it an honor, when asked to perform or demonstrate my Kung Fu in the presence of Sifu Perry and my fellow students, and whatever guests may be in attendance. And, when testing, it is not unusual for there to be special guests, perhaps Sifu McDaniels from Marshall, Sifu Medley from Richardson,or perhaps, on very special occasions, SiGung Fogg. It is showing, publicly, I am proud of the treasure I’ve recieved, and am honored to present my Kung Fu in reverence to those who helped to propogate and maintain the style for the times. I value to knowledge trusted to me, and show such.
TenTigers:
$25 per sash level up to Black. Included sash and my time for the test.
$100 at Black. Was planning to do $100 per degree level past that but tis moot now.
oh, and it was well known that ‘Shifu’ liked a certain Mexican restuarant and the margaritas therein… 
(not relavent for the kids tests, of course.)
[QUOTE=sifudrew4870;1078016]The kwoon I am associated with here in Louisiana, from the start, has had a sliding scale for it’s testing fees, that I believe, is respectful of the students, covers the costs associated with testing, and shows gratitude to both Sifu, Si Gung, and system/style.
White, Yellow, Gold, are $ 50.00
Orange,Green are $40.00
Purple,Maroon are $ 30.00
Brown is $20.00
Black Level one is $10.00
All beyond this level are free.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. I like it.
[QUOTE=Syn7;1078022]can anyone tell me what is accomplished with testing??? like whats the point???
i understand richards point, if they want to teach they need some sort of credit… fair enough… but why does a casual or even serious student need testing??? is recognition for hard work and obvious ability not enough???[/QUOTE]
Well, for one thing, a lot of time it’s the students who want to test (who want colored belts) more than the teachers. Teachers just adapt to what they want. I don’t mind ranking, for me it’s a good incentive to work on material I might otherwise let slide (as Northwind suggests).
As far as testing in my school…our tests are really a test. They are harder than any normal class. In order to perform well at the end of the test, it takes more than just knowing the material and working out in class, you really have to ‘dig’ for the ‘chi’ to make it.
That said, it is rare anyone who tests does not pass, but I have seen it happen a few times.
testing is a ritual, like a coming of age ceremony. It makes publicly visible what is happening anyway. For a community this is important, even if individuals can transcend it.
sounds like u guys cant let go of ur old karate days
testing strokes ur ego and make u feel good. masterbating does that too. why dont u guys add masterbating as part of ur tests to make ur students feel extra good
[QUOTE=bawang;1078033]sounds like u guys cant let go of ur old karate days
testing strokes ur ego and make u feel good. masterbating does that too. why dont u guys add masterbating as part of ur tests to make ur students feel extra good[/QUOTE]
Tell me how you really feel…
[QUOTE=Syn7;1078022]can anyone tell me what is accomplished with testing??? like whats the point???
i understand richards point, if they want to teach they need some sort of credit… fair enough… but why does a casual or even serious student need testing??? is recognition for hard work and obvious ability not enough???[/QUOTE]
A lot of you guys just don’t get it. Some of you are a hard core bunch of old schoolers and you guys are the minority. I was the same way as some of you, my teacher did not charge me very much and I never really tested until I was going for my Black Sash and Sifu’s degree.
What you don’t realize it that the average person is not like us older folk. They do not understand the concepts of Sifu and student. To them you are their life coach or someone to push them a bit. There is no more old school thought that this is a serious matter to train and learn the ancient code of the martial artist. To the modern person this is just a hobby or exercise class that keep them occupied a couple days a week.
To answer your question about testing: Testing only gives the average person a gage to see where they are compared to their friends. It also keep them focusing on small short term goals such as testing every 3 months or so. This way, these short term goals keep people from wandering off track or losing sight of the bigger picture. People that do not test, usually quit sooner or earlier than people on a regulated testing program. These are the facts of running a commercial school. Everytime I get a person who says they want to just “TRAIN”, they are not interested in testing because they supposedly old school… They are the first to quit… cause their bored…
Most of you who complain… I feel your pain. I used to teach an old school class where there is just training and work them hard and don’t worry bout testing and it’s geared for people to learn a real good ole fahioned “kung fu”. No one ever lasts more then a month or 2. It’s just not for the modern person.
ginosifu
[QUOTE=Northwind;1078023]To make sure they know the material. Sparring etc. does not do this. Let’s say form X has 108 moves. Bob likes 5 of those moves and has practiced them a gazillion times in a gazillion different ways and tends to use about 3 of them consistently well while sparring. Bob shows the proper energy, focus, conditioning, etc. etc. and kicks butt on sparring nights. Does this show that Bob knows form X inside & out? No - so we test Bob and say show us form X…[/QUOTE]
well then, in that respect, im tested every class… no fees, just show and prove…
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1078042]A lot of you guys just don’t get it. Some of you are a hard core bunch of old schoolers and you guys are the minority. I was the same way as some of you, my teacher did not charge me very much and I never really tested until I was going for my Black Sash and Sifu’s degree.
What you don’t realize it that the average person is not like us older folk. They do not understand the concepts of Sifu and student. To them you are their life coach or someone to push them a bit. There is no more old school thought that this is a serious matter to train and learn the ancient code of the martial artist. To the modern person this is just a hobby or exercise class that keep them occupied a couple days a week.
To answer your question about testing: Testing only gives the average person a gage to see where they are compared to their friends. It also keep them focusing on small short term goals such as testing every 3 months or so. This way, these short term goals keep people from wandering off track or losing sight of the bigger picture. People that do not test, usually quit sooner or earlier than people on a regulated testing program. These are the facts of running a commercial school. Everytime I get a person who says they want to just “TRAIN”, they are not interested in testing because they supposedly old school… They are the first to quit… cause their bored…
Most of you who complain… I feel your pain. I used to teach an old school class where there is just training and work them hard and don’t worry bout testing and it’s geared for people to learn a real good ole fahioned “kung fu”. No one ever lasts more then a month or 2. It’s just not for the modern person.
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
we do it and we didnt quit… theres a strong core of dedicated students… sifu does it for the love, not the cash… he has a day job and more money than most of us who attend… so he doesnt need to reach into our pockets… and if it really came down to it and we needed cash for something specific, we would all just pitch in and make it happen as best we could…
recently sifu spent like 3 grand on new sparring gear… he was happy to do it cause he wants to spar more… simple right??? if he had needed help paying for it we would have all chipped in, but we didnt need to this time…
hey now, nobody is complaining in my class other than a few lil kids on begginer classes, they would rather play nintendo ds in the back than to do any learning let alone any hard workout… but theyre just kids so its all good…
yes a few adults come thru and dont llast coz they are lazy or its not what they thought it was… but most of us are between 25 and 60 and we all work hard and sifu has time for all of us… you take intruction from your seniors and you are “tested” later on by sifu… but there is no fee for that and if there was i would be dissapointed… i dunno if that makes us “ol skool” or what… it is what it is and im happy with it… i wouldnt put up with fees for every time we’re tested because it happens so often… and yes it does take time away from other training but thats the nature of the beast and sifu gets that… he can work with me in the back for 20 minutes while the rest do a class with the seniors in charge… its pretty standard stuff i thought… aside from the cash grabbers, the soakers, the gougers and the mc dojos, i thought my experience was par for the course…
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1077925]as long as I’ve been training, pretty much all my teachers who had public schools, have charged testing fees.
In 1975, our TKD Black Belt fee was 500.00 (yikes!)
I know that it does bring in extra income to the school.
My question to the board is,
Do you charge?
How much do you charge?
When people ask why the fee, what is your answer?
I recall when I was in Tang Soo Do as well as in TKD, they charged us a membership fee. So we are “registered in Korea.”
Great. So somewhere in Korea, in an old file cabinet, or a cardboard box, there is a piece of paper with my name on it.[/QUOTE]
You think like a martial arts teacher. You don’t think like an entrepreneur/business man. You will probably not be successful as one. Stick with teaching.
Just to add. For me, every class should be like a test where the sifu (and/or the seniors) watches the students’ strengths, while at the same time, he corrects their weaknesses. This is how I felt in every class of Chow Gar and Wing Chun.
I personally think that one should be judged by what one puts into his training in every session, and no, testes don’t always reflect that!
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1078046]Just to add. For me, every class should be like a test where the sifu (and/or the seniors) watches the students’ strengths, while at the same time, he corrects their weaknesses. This is how I felt in every class of Chow Gar and Wing Chun.
I personally think that one should be judged by what one puts into his training in every session, and no, testes don’t always reflect that![/QUOTE]
i agree with hardwork108…
but in my case, my testes have always reflected my great manhood!!!:rolleyes:
nice typo, worked out tho…
[QUOTE=Syn7;1078047]i agree with hardwork108…
but in my case, my testes have always reflected my great manhood!!!:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
You must have your testes mirror polished. 
[QUOTE=Syn7;1078047]nice typo, worked out tho…[/QUOTE]
Even geniuses make mistakes…
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1078055]You must have your testes mirror polished.
Even geniuses make mistakes…;)[/QUOTE]
i have them licked clean and then polished by her hand daily… in return i make sure to test her sensitivity in as many creative ways as i can come up with… fair trade…
[QUOTE=Syn7;1078044]
yes a few adults come thru and dont llast coz they are lazy or its not what they thought it was… but most of us are between 25 and 60 and we all work hard and sifu has time for all of us… you take intruction from your seniors and you are “tested” later on by sifu… but there is no fee for that and if there was i would be dissapointed… i dunno if that makes us “ol skool” or what… it is what it is and im happy with it… i wouldnt put up with fees for every time we’re tested because it happens so often… and yes it does take time away from other training but thats the nature of the beast and sifu gets that… he can work with me in the back for 20 minutes while the rest do a class with the seniors in charge… its pretty standard stuff i thought… aside from the cash grabbers, the soakers, the gougers and the mc dojos, i thought my experience was par for the course…[/QUOTE]
You guys are old school. The majority of the population has a different mindset. You say your teacher has a day job… that right there states that your sifu does not need any $$$. So he teaches for the love of teaching. make teaching his sole income and he will sing a different tune.
I wish that I could just teach for the love of teaching… my wife would kick me out until I could afford to keep her happy.
ginosifu