This question is mainly to people of the Lee Koon Hung lineage.
I have been thinking about this for a long time now and I haven’t been able to come up with a sufficient answer.
The question is this…
When you are doing a motion like, for example, the opening movement when you sink and send both arms back, do your shoulder blades move closer together and do you “open” the chest. Also, what part of the arm are you blocking with here? The top or the side.
The same question applies to the second half of the cirlcle in the Poon Kiu movement. In the first half of the circle you are blocking with the forearm as it come around to the second half of the circle you have two options.
Rotate the shoulder and arm in ward and use the underside of the arm /palm to block.
Rotate the shoulder and arm out ward and use the backside of the arm/hand to block.
In the first example you are blocking with the underside of the arm, which is a bad idea. However, the movement is more “contained.” In addition you can use this move to scoop under a kick and grab it with the palm. It works I’ve done it.
In the second, example you are blocking with the outside of the arm which will help prevent injury to yourself. However, this exposes the chest to attack and it easy for your arm to “get away” from you as the shoulder rotates back.
Any thoughts on this are appreciated. I might also add that any movement that opens this chest in this way would be a big no-no in Taiji. But I realize that CLF and Taiji are not the same art.
The opening you are talking about I take it is the same for Siu Ping Kuen. I have seen variations of it done and I think Lee Koon Hung added that when shortening a form. We do that for Tut Tsen & Siu Sup Gee also.
The way I like to do it is to open the shoulders (chest and back), but definitelt not bending the spine. Also I open and keep the hand waist level with the elbows slightly bent. I use the outside forearm to block, but I think of this more as an escape from someone grabbing from behind. But to each his own with applications, there is no right and wrong, just variations.
I do not think it’s a good thing to bend the back, that’s a tai chi no-no, but CLF is not tai chi, but all the CLF I have ever learned does not bend the back either, I have seen some styles of CLF do that, maybe they have a reason but I don’t see the effectiveness, or when an older master performs, but hell I hope I am as good as the older Kung Fu masters like Poon Sing, Chan Sau Chung or Chan Pui when I get to that age.
Poon Cue, loosely translated means circular block. I am not sure which one you are refering to, I usually face the back of my hand toards the opponent with my right hand, or use a little twist out at the contact point, the second one I use the outer forearm and side of my palm followed by Sow Choy or Chin Si Choy.
But again, there are many variations and preference.
Fu Pow,
Brilliant question. I was also thinking about that before. If I am not mistaken, you are not refereing to the opening of Siu Ping Kuen right? Do you meen the opening as in Che Kuen and 5 animals, buddha palm etc, whith the double elbows, extending the arms backwards?
I can see that it could be a block, but personally, I wouldnt use that as a block. I cant see that it would be good to open your self up in this way. One thing I can add from my limited experience, is that it is an excellent movement to open the lungs as part of a breathing routine, but Im pretty sure that was not the intention of the move.
I hope we are talking bout the same move? I think I read before in here (I think it was Sow Choy who posted it) that the opening move in Buddha palm is more symbolic, maybe there is another application for this move. All i can say, that since I learned Che Kuen, no one has been able to show me an effective application for this first opening move. I am pretty sceptical to use it as a block, but I am in no way qualified to comment.
Sorry about my language and spelling, I didnt have a good night sleep last night.
I am kind of confused specifically about which opening sequence you are referring to. My personal feeling that although the opening sequences do have applications they have more sybolic meanings and open the form to the real techniques.
I mean really try using a sheung pai sow in a fight. Yes some of it can be used if you adapt it to a fight but once again real fighting and forms are different.
Pleace explain the question a bit more (use the form you are talking about as an example).
So let’s take the generic bow from Tuet Jin, Sup Ji and Ng Ying.
It is literally the first move. Where you sink the legs and throw your arms back.
There are two ways that you can twist the arms back.
One way twists the arms outward so that the under side of the arms is facing out. The chest “opens” up.
The other way is to twist the arm inward the chest “closes.” But the arms end up in kind of a goofy position.
From what I can tell Lee Koon Hung did the first way.
Ok…now let’s extend this argument.
The opening movment that I referred to before is essentially a half poon kiu using both arms. It’s missing the first part of the circle. Instead your arms are curled up to the shoulder.
When you do one hand Poon Kiu the same question applies to the two hand movement.
Does the shoulder twist inward or outward?
In Poon Kiu Sao Choy the blocking arm comes across the upper half of the body then goes down, at this point you can do one of two things. Twist the arm inward as though you are going to block with the inside of the arm. Or 2 twist the arm outward as though you are going to block with the top of the arm.
When you complete the movement the arm will end up protecting your head. But if you twist in ward it will get there more linearily. If you twist outward it will arrive in a more circular pattern.
This is a very subtle thing but I think ultimately it will effect the application and quality of the movement.
Thanks for the earlier replies. Unfortunately it is easier to show you this then to write about it.
