# Sure you can fight without I-Ching, but can you master the art?
**URL:** https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sure-you-can-fight-without-i-ching-but-can-you-master-the-art/4090
**Category:** Taijiquan and the Internal Martial Arts
**Created:** [May 14, 2001, 7:54am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sure-you-can-fight-without-i-ching-but-can-you-master-the-art/4090 "2001-05-14T07:54:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 4
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2001, 1:35am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sure-you-can-fight-without-i-ching-but-can-you-master-the-art/4090/21 "2001-05-18T01:35:22Z")
My statement is purely a coincidence…
May I also add I like the Book of the Five Rings and the Art of War by Sun Tzu for fighting…
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### Author:  [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sure-you-can-fight-without-i-ching-but-can-you-master-the-art/4090/22 "2001-05-18T02:20:20Z")
Razak:
What techniques do you use when fighting with these books? Do you have to oil and sharpen the covers regularly?
Damn it’s hard to keep this tongue outta my cheek.
Cheers.
PS–Hope you and your bagua brothers have a safe and fruitful trip to Beijing. You’re gonna be sweatin, man, but be careful drinking the water there. I really look forward to hearing how it goes and what you learned. Best wishes for a good time.
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### Author:  [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2001, 2:36am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sure-you-can-fight-without-i-ching-but-can-you-master-the-art/4090/23 "2001-05-18T02:36:16Z")
Lets keep it real folks - lets end this debate
We can debate back and forth about I-Ching and everybody has his or her own opinion. When you touch hands with someone you better have skills because there will be no debate. Bottom line, Pa Kua Chang consist of circle walking and from this you develop and manifest the energies of the universe. If you can’t follow the principles that one must follow in circle walking - then what’s the use of understanding the I-Ching? You have to build internal energy before you can do anything. The foundation of Pa Kua is Nei Gung and later you can go to the I-Ching. The bottom line is you need I-Ching to learn how to fight and you don’t need the I-Ching to reach a higher level of spirituality.
My Sifu had me had spar with cats that knew the I-Ching and had mad years of experience over me. The cats couldn’t even defend themselves…where was their trigram palms then? You have to have skillzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz… That experience gave me confidence that I’m learning real martial arts…
We do sitting and standing mediation to reach the Tao…We do understand the I-Ching and we don’t study to the point of fooling ourselves…We are Africans so we study the ways of Ifa and we use the energies of the Dogon for astral quest within ourselves…Unlike the I-Ching the Ifa tells us what is likely to happen if we do not change our circumstances. Not only does it forecast the future it gives us an opportunity to change it.
Power comes from our ancestors, how can you worship someone’s else philosophies…you will get power but you won’t get greatness…true spirituality gives thanks to your ancestors and follow their philosophies and theories…
If you want to follow someone else’s ways that cool with us - but you will never get their essence.
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### Author:  [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2001, 3:03pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sure-you-can-fight-without-i-ching-but-can-you-master-the-art/4090/24 "2001-05-18T15:03:22Z")
A thousand thanks
You all have been admirably courageous in putting yourselves (and your opinions) on the line.
I really feel like most folks have been dancing around this issue. Maybe it’s because of all that circle walking!
Anyhow, I am busy attending to another personal crisis (This is “the art of change” REAL TIME boys!), so I won’t be posting for awhile.
Hope to see posts on your trip to China Mr. Boxers (you lucky dog)!
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