I have read on this board the importance of stance training. I am interested in static, or non-moving stance training. I think I know what you are trying to accomplish doing this, but would like to hear an explanation by someone else.
Any insights on this would be helpful, i.e. how long to hold a stance, purpose, etc.
Thanks again for all the help,
Sam
Look, and it can’t be seen.
Listen, and it can’t be heard.
Reach, and it can’t be grasped.
Go for 2 minutes-GOOD
The stance should be long,deep, and above all proper structure.
Although there are many styles, they all depend on the strong beating the weak and the slow falling to the quick. These are not related to the power that must be learned – Taiji Classics
Sturcture?
Is trying to find the perfect structure the main objective in doing stationary training?
Sam
Look, and it can’t be seen.
Listen, and it can’t be heard.
Reach, and it can’t be grasped.
yep
From what I’ve heard, structure is important. Also when standing, imagine that someone is pushing various parts of your body and try to ground that push.
stance keeping
My master once said
“you wan’t move fast…move slow”
“you wan’t move faster…move slower”
“you wan’t move lightning…no move”
twdsn
No
Perfect structure is necessary for proper stance training, but it is not the objective.
Stance training promotes leg strength, increases the root, and develops internal power.
stance
How does it develop internal power, Daniel?
stances
Holding stances (especially the universal horse stance) activates certain pressure points in the huiyin area (groin and anal area) and it somehow helps with qi. Sorry it sounds vague ! Certain hand postures help with this.
I think stances are very important .. pretty much every kung fu school that I’ve seen have students who get away with being sloppy, that is have very very bad stances. Leaning in the wrong places, a not straight back, no balance, being the main problems.
Stances are an isometric excercise, rather than isotonic (weights… i hope this part is right). Most of the time, isometrics give better results and more quickly too.
I find after a little bit of horse stance holding, I run faster, jump higher, etc. All good.
‘If we do not go within, we go without’.
I dunno
Actually I have no idea how it does, but I also don’t know why water comes out of the faucet when I turn the handle, but it does.
Stance Training
First of all, I do not know any stance training that is static or stationary or ie: no moving. There is the microcosmic orbit of the breath and the tension and relaxation of specific muscles going on all the time. Stance training develops internal strength in a number of ways. There is sink and float but it is the transition between stances that develops chan su jin (reeling silk energy) for power issuing. If nothing else, holding a stance for a long period, say 8 breath cycles forces the larger muscle groups to give out and the smaller muscle groups to take over. Then the tendons and then the bones, building strength from the foundation out.f
I’ve been trying to ground a push in my head while I do stances lately as well, with some success.
Also, learning to go low in horse stance and keep the back straight works some muscles in the back as well as the legs.
In any case, stances are much more than just isometric training, though that’s one benefit.
Reply to Count
I have never before read a Western explanation to this and it corresponds to the Chinese explanations and is complementary. I think theoretically it has to do with the progress from obvious to hidden energy and then to transforming energy (from ming jin to hua jin), changing bone, tendon and marrow respectively. Or is it?
Are there any materials that you can recommend on stance/pole training (especially the concept of training that goes inwards). If not, I would be interested to hear more on the subject.
Thanks Lloyd
and welcome to KFO. I have only read one article back in the early 80’s on stance training when I was beginning to be serious about kung fu, and I don’t think I can dig it up. I believe stance training is one of the most important parts of developing strength for issuing power. When I hear kung fu people say things like “you don’t fight from those deep stances”, I literally cringe. They are the postures for issuing power with maximum force. Each system that I study have different hand positions too. This corresponds to the main energy channels in the body and with the proper twist and untwist of the body open up the channels and allow chi to flow. We have 8 basic stances in kung fu. Some systems that I study like baguazhang and praying mantis have 2 or more additional stances. Actually, a literal translation of the postures would be steps. Ma Bu, which most people call horse stance really means horse step. It is the first stance and we return to ma bu in between doing the other stances on both sides. One of the most common misconceptions of ma bu is to have the knees pushing out instead of in. With the knees out you force close the kua area which you need to open and close during training and issuing power. A good deep ma bu has the thighs parallel to the ground. When we change from ma bu to gung bu (bow and arrow) stance we focus on maintaining the exact same height. This is key in developing chan su jin (reeling silk energy). The feet generate the first twist and the rest of body follows through. We focus on maintaining the same height through all of the stances, except pu tui bu (low stance or leg stretching stance) and then we do not get up but rather pull the leg back into ma bu. We hold each stance for 8 full breaths at least. And I mean slow inhale to the dan tien and even slower exhale. For all 8 stances I usually spend 20 minutes to a half hour to complete. The 8 basic stances are: horse stance, bow stance, empty leg or cat stance, low stance, hanging leg or rooster stands on one leg stance, twisted stance, 70-30 stance and 60-40 stance. Here is a drawing that I did of some of my kung fu brothers holding stances.
They are not perfect but you should get the idea and if you knew these guys you would crack up. 
BTW,
I loved Rhino’s post but I think that is too Chinese for us westerners.
Hey Count
Why 8 breaths and what type of breathing
twdsn
Count, I like that drawing. You have posed it before. The first time I saw it I thought it was the training form Tom Toy.
-------------------------I am fortunate to have a teacher to correct my foolish ways…Qiman
Isn’t Tom Toy a drink with umbrellas and cherrys and stuff?
Actually Qiman, you are not far off base. In our school, Tan Tui is the first form we learned along with all the Chang chuan basics and stances.
Rhino, why 8 breaths? Because it is a lot. I don’t know why 8. Everything is 8 in bagua. Why 8 stances? Why 8 anything? Becuase it’s more. My theory is that the Chinese pick a number that is more than you can keep track of in your head at one time. They could have said six because you only have five fingers on one hand, but maybe that wasn’t long enough. 8 is an important number in Chinese mythology but it just seems like the right amount of time. Funny question though.
Count, I think the 8 breaths in the stance work might be a carry over from the baji training. When you reach the level of 8 breaths in baji postures you breath to specific points: 1) top of the head; 2) two shoulders; 3) two elbows; 4) two hands; 5) tailbone; 6)the kua; 7) knees; and 8) two feet. I remember when we were first told about this everyone kept looking for some kind of qi connection etc. but it seems that this a very good way to build the correct alignment (at least for baji) into your stancework.
Damn good answer bob!
I never really thought about it like that except it does bring in the lower part of the macro cosmic orbit that I did not mention before.
Off topic, Jason brought up the idea of traveling to Ohio this fall for the tournament. Of course I jumped on the suggestion. We’ll see how it floats with the rest of the group. Are you back from Korea now?
Kumkuat
I may be wrong, but as I understand it the stances help your internal energy because when executed correctly they put your skeleton, and in particular your spine, into the proper alignment to allow your energy to flow and build.
You have no chance to survive - make your time.