spinning side kick/backfist . . . do you turn your head to pick your target?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

on another thread someone was posting about a spinning kick some chick did …

“I have to say, her form was good, nice pivot, head around to lock on the target first, followed by her waist and then leg.”

not saying it’s wrong, but i was taught differantly. we are taught to pick our target and visualise it during the spin. the head is supposed to come around with the rest of the body. the logic is that spinning the head first makes the body spin less as an entire unit, thus depleting some of the power.

anyone else taught this way?

2

Hey GDA, that was my thread, you dirt y *******, go talking about me in front of this forum with everyone able to view it like your some kind of god! >:)

j/k :slight_smile:

Actually, When I was in Karate, along time ago, they taught us to spin our heads first and look right where we wanted our foot to land. I am not sure if this is standard practice or not but it seemed to make sense and I have seen other people do it. She did!

3

gda . .. god da mned a$$hole

that’s the way i kicked before going to my current school.

at first i thought it made little sense and only did it cause the man told me to. however, now i do feel that i am getting more oomph behind the kick. it’s also a very helpful training tool … it’s definately an advantage to be able to hit a target you can’t look at for whatever reason.

4

Yeah? Havent used tholse sorts of kicks in a while, but what you are saying makes sense, its always good to be prepared.
Did I mention that I like to rock climb, lift weights and do MA and I am a lesbian?

5

wierd b!tch.

:smiley:

6

yeah i find very few opportunities for the spinning back kick, but they’re there. i have probably done 2 total out of all of my sparring sessions. i do like the spinning backfist/elbow though . … nice follow up when you have to get to your opponents side anyway.

7

I learned to spin the head first to develop the reflexes/coordination to make last second changes in case the target has shifted or has moved entirely out of range (so I can “bail out” of the technique if needed).

I have seen the version with the head not turning first work just as effectively, so I don’t have any comment as to which is better (if any).

I know Jaguar Wong uses both and has blasted me on more than a few occasions with them :mad: . He normally turns his head, but his “no look” version is a spinning back kick to the gut used mostly in close (short punching range) where he has no need to re-aquire the target. Gotta watch for those spinning chops to the neck too, man.

8

OK. First off: This kick lacks alot in the practical applications department and it’s just plain risky. That being said, it’s a lot of fun, seriously powerful and it looks cool. And I speak for noone else but looking cool is a factor for me. Yeah I am into realistic training but given that I haven’t been in a fight in 8 years, looking cool and having fun seems to be abetter goal than practical applications sometimes. For practical purposes I do everything possible to avoid using this stuff.

Off the soap box.
I get my head around first. 1) It keeps my spin tighter which also helps my balance. 2) There is less time spent in the risky position of not looking at your opponent. You know the one where they jeet tek your kicking leg and then eat you up because you can’t even see them. 3) Visualizing is great if reality continues to reflect the visualization but even if he/she doesn’t blitz you, he/she may move enough that the targeting has changed substantially. 4) I like having torque in my body when I kick. The head leading will cause your body to twist as you pointed out. This means your hips will have some torque in them when you deliver the kick. And in my experience this makes the kick stronger.

That’s the way I learned it first. Most people I know do it that way(if they do it at all) In truth you are only the second person I have known that espouses your viewpoint(true, I have students that do it the way you describe but then they think they are doing a headswitch first. For that matter, they deliver a snap front kick when they think they are doing a thrust) Personally I have tried both but I couldn’t get your way to be as strong but that may just be a factor of what I’ve practiced more. The reasoning for head switch makes more sense to me and in my experience it works better so that’s what I do. Only in friendly sparring though. And under rules where takedowns stop the action. Going full bore NHB style even with limited contact and I would never try that move.

9

Look at your target.
If you were going to throw a front kick, would you look away from your target? If you were going to throw a jab, would you close your eyes and visualize the target? Not likely. Just visualizing the target isn’t good becuase the target can move. That’s the reason for turning your head, to look at your target.

Also, turning you head begins the rotation. Where the head goes, so goes the body. So start your head and it will help whip the rest of your body around.

I use the spinning back kick in a back knuckle then spinning back kick combo, and sometimes in the randori.

JWT

10

Actually, my last spinning backfist was when I read the first ninja moviescript:
http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~rahjr79/ninja_movie_script.htm

I got so excited I gave one to my boss at work!

11

Like Tigerstyle mentioned, I usually turn the head. I also use the no look version, which we started calling the “point blank 360” (even though it’s only a 180 ;)), which is the spinning back kick that I use from inside punching range, but only if I can get the necessary sidestep to make them follow in a tight circle.

For all spinning back fists, I always turn my head. Like JWT mentioned, the head is where I start my rotation. If it doesn’t lead, my backfist is just a snappy one with no real need to spin. When I turn my head for the kicks, my shoulders and torso feed the momentum to my hips, which is where I need the power to be, and by that time, I’m already looking at my target. Also, my hero Kazushi Sakuraba used it very effectively (he turned his head first as well) against Vitor Belfort, in fact the first one he landed, Vitor had to quickly shuffle away, then he dropped to the mat and started butt scooting. I was in shock, I thought Vitor had the better stand up skills, but I guess he felt differently after eating that kick.

I get my head around first. 1) It keeps my spin tighter which also helps my balance. 2) There is less time spent in the risky position of not looking at your opponent. You know the one where they jeet tek your kicking leg and then eat you up because you can’t even see them. 3) Visualizing is great if reality continues to reflect the visualization but even if he/she doesn’t blitz you, he/she may move enough that the targeting has changed substantially. 4) I like having torque in my body when I kick. The head leading will cause your body to twist as you pointed out. This means your hips will have some torque in them when you deliver the kick. And in my experience this makes the kick stronger.
-myosimka

I totally agree with every point here. We’ve got the same kicking theory…this is creepy, but I guess it’s just like why my bro and I have so much in common with Ap Oweyn. It’s because of all the crappy martial arts flicks that we watch! :slight_smile: Gary Daniels for life!! (or president, which ever would help the world more). I don’t feel that the “no look, visualizing” version is wrong, and from what I’ve seen, there are plenty of people that get more power out of it, but from my experience, it’s easier to jam, if they don’t set it up properly. Even if they don’t set the head turning version up properly, they still seem to be able to bail out when they see me chambering the jam. It really sucks to be jammed out of a spinning back kick, but if you’re not looking at your target, that’s like wearing a big bow on your head, cause it’s Christmas for me :wink:

On a side note, though. I don’t try to jam unless the opportunity arises, I usually get out of the way. Mostly a quick back shuffle, but on the rare occasion that I have enough composure to off angle, I can end up right behind the guy.

Here’s my question now…How many of you have landed a spinning hook kick in sparring? It’s a much harder kick to land, huh? :slight_smile: Your head better be around when you attempt that one, unless you plan on just flying all the way around with full momentum, and hope something is still in the path.

12

lol@jaguarwong

well, gary daniels is a brit (hurray!) so he can’t be president. but i feel comfortable with ‘prince regent.’ whaddya think?

as for the spinning backkick, i like it. i use it fairly frequently. set up properly, it’s not too difficult to land. and as long as you give the other guy something to think about as you’re throwing it (feints), not too easy to jam either.

the other reason i like the kick is that there are times when you end up, for whatever reason, with your back partially turned to an opponent. you got overzealous with an out-2-in crescent or roundhouse. he pulled some nifty footwork. whatever. sometimes, it’s more economical to keep that momentum going into a spin than it is to stop and readjust your stance.

there have been occassions when i’ve inadvertently given people my back. but then they walked into a back kick. if i just tried to readjust, i think they’d have been on me like something on something else.

that’s my theory, at any rate.

stuart b.

13

I use the spinning hook kick as a in-fighting technique to hit someone where they least expect it. Spinning back kicks work OK if your opponent is easy to sucker into rushing you.

I turn the head first too.

14

oh, right. the original question. i turn the head first as well, though i’ve seen a lot of wtf-style taekwondo fighters throw their spinning kicks without looking at the target. didn’t seem to hurt their chances of hitting, i have to say. if you’re fast enough, i gather you can pull that off.

stuart b.

15

ap,
well crap, I guess my vote is for Billy Blanks now…No wait, Kieth Cook is only half Japanese right. He’s gotta be a citizen. :wink:

Rogue,
You’re one brave mutha if you’re using a spinning hook kick for in-fighting. I’ve fallen on my face a lot (recently) using that too close. Oh wait, you’re a TKD guy. You use 'em like jabs, huh? :stuck_out_tongue:

16

keith cooke i’d vote for. no question.

michael worth for VP.

17

Howzabout:

Press Release:
Gary Daniels starring in ‘Chung Kuo’, an Albert Pyun film. Universal has announced a renewed commitment to the project of approximately $100million. Theater head announced the dramatic move at a press conference yesterday. “Sure it’s an expensive project but we feel it’s worth it. Getting Mark Dacascos to costar dramatically raised the price of the movie following his breakthrough success in Le Pacte des Loupes but he has proven to us that he can deliver. It’s not too great a financial burden though. We cancelled our most recent Van Damme-Seagal project ‘Snowball in Hell’ which freed up the necessary capital. Not too worry though those 2 will rebound with their next film scheduled for release in 2154.” Burton Richardson has announced his return from retirement to co-choreograph the fight sequences with Jeff Imada. Albert Pyun’s comment on the recent additions to the crew:“Sure it was a great book and I’ve wanted to make a movie it for some time but let’s face it. Who gives a $hi+?? With Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa signing on as the bad guy last week, this movie is gonna rock! Even if we used a Power Rangers script.”

Ahh. Personally glad Daniels can’t be Prez. What would life be without Bloodmoon or White Tiger? And for god’s sake, he is a Brit. Do you think he’d help the economy??? :wink:

Back to the backspinning kick. Apoweyn, see your point and I have used it for just that reason in the past but these days I go for the spinning backfist or elbow. If I get overzealous on a roundhouse and have that spin, cranking it more kills my balance. Add being on one leg to that and it’s a recipe for disaster. So sometimes I’ll let the motion occur but I try to keep my feet on the ground and use a hand technique. My balance sucks in positions like that.

18

is this for real? chung kuo? (middle kingdom: china)

well, albert pyun has never made a bad film, so i’m on board. [smirk]

daniels and dacascos in the same flick could be entertaining. van damme and seagal in the same flick could work too. “way of the has been”?

myosimka,

good point about the balance. but i find that people tend to jump backward a lot. so i can still catch them with the back kick. not sure i could with the spinning backfist or elbow. (that said, i’m going to give it a go and find out. who knows. maybe you’ll convert me.)

stuart b.

19

U should ‘lock’ the target in mind before spinning… And not turn the head first. That is what I’m told.

20

that could work. the problem is that you can’t ‘lock’ that target in reality. it can move.

stuart b.