There is some really good methods here, I’m definitly going to try some.
Ill tell you what I do…
I’ve got some ankle and wrist weights. Where I practice my forms, single techniques, combinations and even some shadow boxing.
I practice them slow first for 2 sets then I do 2 sets fast and then 2 without the weights.
But I’m gonna try it with a tai chi form next (need to learn one 1st, pref pushing hands)
I didn’t see this before…
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;881228]Seven is correct. As is Toby.
Also, run sprints. This will help your handspeed too because:
a) Speed is not localised: it’s a whole body phenomenon
b) Although the mechanics to striking is obviously different, sprinters have some of the fastest moving hands in coordination with their legs on the planet.
Juggling won’t help your hands get faster except for the first couple of days before you plateau. Running across boulder fields won’t either unless you’re sprinting (although of course it has other benefits such as stability).
Speed is not like strength. With strength training you can say, “well, I want to get stronger”, so you work your way up to bigger weights and go a little bigger every day. With speed you can’t just say “I want to go faster” and move faster every day.
As I said, sprinting will help, but again, you’ll reach your plateau quickly: it’s genetic. So that’s when the HIIT and weights come in to improve your sprinting. You can do HIIT with weights or hand exercises too which helps.
Is that the one where you stand still with your arms out? If so, that’s an excellent exercise, but no relation to speed.
There are different kinds of relaxation. For punching relaxing while punching targets and moving around on your feet (be they humans, heavy bags or shields) is better for handspeed because your using the right muscles. Punching the air is teaching you to slow your muscles to protect your joints.
Also, 500 reps of anything is an endurance exercise and will not help speed as such.
You said there were two points: I only saw one, what was the other?[/QUOTE]
The first point is relaxing, the second is economy of motion.
Practicing 500 reps of punches, ensures that the technique is not only consistenly refined to take out every little extra movement, and to make sure the only muscles used are the needed ones, but it also makes the technique very comfortable and natural, which will improve both confidence of execution and speed.
[QUOTE=iron_leg_dave;881928]The first point is relaxing, the second is economy of motion.
Practicing 500 reps of punches, ensures that the technique is not only consistenly refined to take out every little extra movement, and to make sure the only muscles used are the needed ones, but it also makes the technique very comfortable and natural, which will improve both confidence of execution and speed.[/QUOTE]
Just to add something, my cousin is 6’3 260 pounds. We talk alot, about exercise, and are real up on what eachother are doing. The summer before last, he would hit the gym every night and use a machine we have at our gym that is like an arm powered bicycle, I can’t remember what it is called, for 30 minutes. At the end of the summer, he could move his arms fast enough to catch a fly with his hands pretty easily. If you can picture a man the size of sasquatch, an x-lineman catching a fly, repeated, low impact punching has it’s validity.
[QUOTE=uki;881912]i don’t see how you are qualified to speak of any benefits or not of juggling 9 pound iron balls unless of course, you do it on a daily basis such as myself.[/quote]I’Ve never stuck my head in an oven, but I don’t reckon it’s good for me…! 
No, OK, you got me there, I’ve never juggled 9 pound balls… but I have juggled a lot, and for circussy shows too.
If all you do before you start juggling is slow, things like writing, or even heavy work like cutting wood (which isn’t necessarily slow either but won’t increase your hand speed) then when you first start juggling you’ll see some improvement in speed. This will soon plateau. Juggling cannot increase your natural hand speed.
Why am I qualified? I’m not. I have however read a lot of books by a lot of people who are as close to sports science experts as you can get (if you accept any western model of scientific method). While anecdotal evidence has its place and experience certainly does, I don’t think you’re really any better qualified to tell us that 9-pound balls will increase your hand speed.
If you can tell us why, in relatively scientific terms, or perhaps point us in the direction of a study with something equivalent please do.
I can see why a 9-pound ball would work like a medicine ball, in a plyometric sense, but again unless you’re going to increase the weight of the balls I can’t see it working your hand speed past a fairly soon-attained plateau.
you should do it sometime. there is a place in pennsylvania, hickory run state park… it’s a very exhilirating experience(exercise).
I’m with you here! Your park sounds cool. I’ve run cross country slate fell running in North Wales, across old mining slag heaps, and debris from Iron-age villages… exhilarating indeed, excellent for endurance, ankle health, balance, all kinds of things. But you can’t run 1000 metres and expect it to increase your speed, hand or foot. It might increase your speed over 1000 m, but that’s about it. So unless you’re running sprints, it isn’t going to change your hand speed.
they go hand in hand.
Yep, speed and strength go hand in hand, which is why you can lift very heavy weights to make you faster. However, the mechanism by which strength increases is by steadily lifting bigger until your reach your max, then occasionally with a change in programme or diet or something you can improve your max… whereas the mechanism by which speed increases is not by just steadily running faster and faster - you will reach your max almost immediately assuming you’re relatively fit (i.e. you don’t collapse 50 m into a 100 m sprint for example).
why not? practice makes perfect.
Practice only makes perfect if you’re practising the right thing!
in laymans terms, all those qigong(chi kung) exercises that [b]transform[/b] the body internally and such… what do you think it is referring to? think a minute… genetic transformation… mutation. why do you think all the ancient masters sought the internal to transform the external; they had an understanding of the phenomenom of genetic transmutations and cellular evolution in relation to the affects of light, energy, and bio-logical and alchemical proccesses of the human body… so what i am saying is that if you work daily on transforming yourself thru exercises, you will infact enhance and alter your DNA to make you stronger, faster, and smarter.
So where are the clans of centuries’ worth of tai chi masters’ genetics? I’ve met a member of the Chen family and he’s still human.
I do ‘internal’ exercises several days a week (I’m hoping to get back to every day), and I really did notice differences in health, body structure and strength in myself, plus punching power, balance and my fu in general as compared to others. My koryu teacher told us that these exercises are for building your core.
But while it’s all anecdotal and experiential, I haven’t noticed any changes in speed. What exercises are you doing specifically and what are the physiological effects that’s making you faster do you think?
[QUOTE=bigsam;881916]I’ve got some ankle and wrist weights. Where I practice my forms, single techniques, combinations and even some shadow boxing.[/quote]Don’t do anything in the air with full extension at full speed with weights on the end of it. It’ll **** your joints up good.
But I’m gonna try it with a tai chi form next (need to learn one 1st, pref pushing hands)
Push hands isn’t a form. And you can’t just pick up a tai chi form and see immediate benefits, mate, you have to work at it!
[QUOTE=iron_leg_dave;881928]The first point is relaxing, the second is economy of motion. [/quote]Oh right, thanks. 
Practicing 500 reps of punches, ensures that the technique is not only consistenly refined to take out every little extra movement, and to make sure the only muscles used are the needed ones, but it also makes the technique very comfortable and natural, which will improve both confidence of execution and speed.
Ah, OK I see where you’re coming from. However, if you practise like that beyond the limits of your endurance the chances are your form will not become more economical but it will start to lack in proper structure and you’ll start recruiting muscles you shouldn’t to take the strain of the ‘correct’ ones. Maybe 100 punches is a better idea…?
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;881930]
Practice only makes perfect if you’re practising the right thing![/quote]what is right. what is wrong.
So where are the clans of centuries’ worth of tai chi masters’ genetics?
intermingled within the populations… the world system is designed to keep ones DNA turned off… cell phone towers, power lines, T.V. programming, pharmecuticals; all are incorporated into our daily lives to keep us scrambled and confused… DNA cannot change if certain mental, spiritual, and physical conditions are not met.
I do ‘internal’ exercises several days a week (I’m hoping to get back to every day), and I really did notice differences in health, body structure and strength in myself, plus punching power, balance and my fu in general as compared to others. My koryu teacher told us that these exercises are for building your core.
it’s not about how much you do… it is the quality of the effort.
What exercises are you doing specifically and what are the physiological effects that’s making you faster do you think?
the specifics vary with the day…
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;881933]Oh right, thanks.
Ah, OK I see where you’re coming from. However, if you practise like that beyond the limits of your endurance the chances are your form will not become more economical but it will start to lack in proper structure and you’ll start recruiting muscles you shouldn’t to take the strain of the ‘correct’ ones. Maybe 100 punches is a better idea…?[/QUOTE]
Hm, maybe your right. The xing yi guy that showed me that prescribed one hundred punches. I wouldn’t sacrifice structure for quantity of reps. I will do my hand work in the mirror to make sure, and video my forms once a week. No muscles seem to be working later in the exercise than were in the beginning. They just get swollen, and tight. After a few hours, it goes away though.
I’m not arguing, I just have to think about it more, now that I’ve started typing…
[QUOTE=uki;881912]i
in laymans terms, all those qigong(chi kung) exercises that [b]transform[/b] the body internally and such… what do you think it is referring to? think a minute… genetic transformation… mutation. why do you think all the ancient masters sought the internal to transform the external; they had an understanding of the phenomenom of genetic transmutations and cellular evolution in relation to the affects of light, energy, and bio-logical and alchemical proccesses of the human body… so what i am saying is that if you work daily on transforming yourself thru exercises, you will infact enhance and alter your DNA to make you stronger, faster, and smarter.[/QUOTE]
I am always cautious about referencing “ancient masters”. because, honestly, as I wasn’t there, I don’t really know what they did, or what they thought, and, quite frankly, I think it is a fallacious route of inquiry to try to project this onto contemporary concepts of DNA and the like; also remember that a lot of “ancient masters” ingested things like cinnabar in order to effect “internal change” (well, it sure did change them…), and that what we today call “qigong” (thanks, PRC!) was but a subset of the whole of “internal” practice
what we can say with a degree of certainty, is that the framework for practice has been passed down, to varying degrees depending on lineage; based on one’s exploration of that structure, it is up to each individual to rediscover the essence of that practice, to direct experience it for themselves; having done so, like the “ancient masters” did, we then try to reconcile that uniquely subjective experience with whatever knowledge base is / was extant at the time; so, for example, having gone through the “100 Days Opening”, based on what my teacher taught me, having experienced certain changes physiologically and having had my experience verified / corroborated by him, I can then start thinking about how contemporary anatomical / physiological knowledge can explain those subjective experiences; in contrast, an “ancient master” would have no idea of how the autonomic nervous system works as it is currently articulated (and certainly there are still gaps in the knowledge base); what they might have had is the Taoist metaphorical internal body view as a guide - which is basically a marco-based metaphorical schematic of functional interrelationships that were observable at that time - no microscope, no notion of cells or cellular respiration to correlate to what one experiences when one “goes inside” and listens; now, of course, we can talk about quantum mechanics and the like in context of qigong practice; but be careful! quantum mechanics theory works really great when talking about - quantum mechanics! the problem is that the people who think that quantum mechanics effects the macro-structure world such that one can simply “think” one’s way through life based on those principles, may not want to stand in the street and try to merge their energy with an oncoming truck…
likewise, to speak of DNA, and the effect of qigonq / cell phones / secret government conspiracies thereupon, well, unless one has a fully articulated concept of what DNA is, what it does, how it works, then perhaps those analogies might be a bit specious; furthermore, if one posits that DNA can be impacted by the above, it stands to reason that an examination of the DNA of someone who has undergone transformative practice / cell phone overuse / CIA experimentation then theoretically their DNA could be examined and these changes would be observable at that level; otherwise, it is simply conjecture in the name of holistic thinking (BTW, I am not suggesting that basking in an unprecedented level of EMF radiation as a species for the last 100 or so years hasn’t had some impact - I personally believe it has, but that is my personal subjective opinion; I am simply stating that the conceptual leap from opening one’s Micro / macro Orbits to notable cellular level changes would require some objective data in order to substantiate it);
[QUOTE=SevenStar;879622]lift very heavy weights. explosively. O lifts, squats - compound stuff. plyometrics. The way to speed is neurological - you have to train your neurological system to produce faster, harder contractions.[/QUOTE]
yep; in a nutshell, plyo; maybe with some good manual treatment first and some specific neuromuscular re-ed to resolve any imbalances in the neuromuscular system (e.g - reset the myotactic reflex arcs; tone down local / systemic chronic histokinene / nociceptive responses; get those agonist / antaghonist force couples balanced, specifically, inhibit hyperfacilitated flxors and facilitte antigravity core extensors); also freeing the breathing mechanism so it is not dominated by the emotional centers; that’s about it; but, then again, what would I know…
I would also keep the number of reps down into the zone where you are not overly fatigued, so as to where you loose structural integrity - except once you have the patterns solidly embedded, then you can train to failure, once in a while
john 4:44…
[QUOTE=uki;881971]john 4:44…[/QUOTE]
. . . has nothing to do with biological adaptations leading to improved muscular contraction speed.
[QUOTE=Vash;881972]. . . has nothing to do with biological adaptations leading to improved muscular contraction speed.[/QUOTE]i suppose it is relative to the perspective of ones understanding…
Dang, my bad. I thought we were discussing science.
[QUOTE=Vash;881975]Dang, my bad. I thought we were discussing science. :)[/QUOTE] give me a break… i am fleeting between two forum boards… one one the end of the world and the other about self defense, i’ve had a 6 pack of beer… the lines are blurring…
[QUOTE=uki;881971]john 4:44…[/QUOTE]
…
Haha… You can spell all this ****…[QUOTE=cjurakpt;881967]… myotactic reflex arcs; …chronic histokinene / nociceptive responses;… inhibit hyperfacilitated …and antigravity… core extensors);…[/QUOTE]
But you can’t spell this…
antaghonist… flxors… facilitte
Do you have any English for any of that malarkey anyway?
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;881994]Haha… You can spell all this ****…
But you can’t spell this…[/QUOTE]
I believe that Andrew Jackson once said, “I don’t trust anyone who spells the same word the same way twice.”
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;881994]Do you have any English for any of that malarkey anyway? :)[/QUOTE]
not really; I kinda just make this crap up as I go along…
[QUOTE=cjurakpt;881998]I believe that Andrew Jackson once said, “I don’t trust anyone who spells the same word the same way twice.”[/quote]politics make much more sense now.
not really; I kinda just make this crap up as I go along…
well keep practicing because it is not that good… but it is good…
Nobbut, seriously, I think you’re agreeing with me but I’m not sure…!
What are these bolded things? (I’ve checked some of them on the net and can’t make head nor tail of them)[QUOTE=cjurakpt;881967]yep; in a nutshell, plyo; maybe with some good manual treatment first and some specific neuromuscular re-ed to resolve any imbalances in the neuromuscular system (e.g - reset the myotactic reflex arcs; tone down local / systemic chronic histokinene / nociceptive responses; get those agonist / antaghonist force couples balanced, specifically, inhibit hyperfacilitated flxors and facilitte antigravity core extensors); also freeing the breathing mechanism so it is not dominated by the emotional centers; that’s about it; but, then again, what would I know…
I would also keep the number of reps down into the zone where you are not overly fatigued, so as to where you loose structural integrity - except once you have the patterns solidly embedded, then you can train to failure, once in a while[/QUOTE]
I don’t know: Uki refuses to give any explanation devoid of hippy**** wafting as to why his techniques improve speed (I’m just jealous cos he lives the life I’d like to) and you just regurgitate text books… happy mediums anyone?!