# sparring experiences **URL:** \ **Category:** Kung Fu Forum\ **Created:** [February 3, 2004, 6:04pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280 "2004-02-03T18:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MasterKiller](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/masterkiller/32/407_2.png) [@MasterKiller](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MasterKiller)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/21 "2004-02-04T19:27:27Z")
> Originally posted by red5angel > There are a ton of schools here in the small towns of minneapolis and St. Paul and yet very little inter school mixing ever happens. > Insurance may be a concern. We don’t really like to have people from outside the school come in to spar unless they are willing to sign a waiver, and even then you have to be cautious. One lawsuit can shut the doors permenantly. ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/22 "2004-02-04T19:33:38Z")
sadly masterkiller that is the truth… ---
**Author:** ![Ray\_Pina](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/ray_pina/32/242_2.png) [@Ray\_Pina](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Ray_Pina)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/23 "2004-02-04T22:46:42Z")
A waiver will not protect you either. Core schools exist at their own risk. It’s important for a teacher to know the students ability before allowing them to bang around, know they can at least protect their head a bit. I missed it while in Vegas, but supposedly a guy who was a little off his rocker came to challenge the school. My teacher was just trying to show him some stuff and the guy “turned on” out of no where. I heard the highlight clip from training partners, and over heard my teacher saying something about feeling bad about having to hit the guy because his head wasn’t right. But from what I got it sounded like it quickly developed from demonstrating what we do to using what we do to stop an attack. Sucks I’m never around for these things. I’ve only seen one or two. And few come right out and say what they’re up to. Always seems like they accelerate after being frustrated. Occupational hazard I guess. ---
**Author:** ![joedoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@joedoe](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/joedoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/24 "2004-02-04T22:58:16Z")
Excellent thread. Good to hear about your experiences red5. ---
**Author:** ![Judge\_Pen](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/judge_pen/32/409_2.png) [@Judge\_Pen](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Judge_Pen)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/25 "2004-02-05T15:09:02Z")
> Originally posted by EvolutionFist > A waiver will not protect you either. Core schools exist at their own risk. It’s important for a teacher to know the students ability before allowing them to bang around, know they can at least protect their head a bit. Ultimately a waiver may get the case dismissed, but nothing can prevent a frivilous lawsuit and the legal fees incurred to defend a frivilous lawsuit can still shut down most schools. Lawyers s uck! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![red5angel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/red5angel/32/219_2.png) [@red5angel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/red5angel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/26 "2004-02-05T15:34:35Z")
I guess if we are going to get more schools to open up to sparring with outsiders we are going to have to agree that if an outsider is wounded in your school you must kill him and dump his nody somewhere so you incur no lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Merryprankster](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/merryprankster/32/102_2.png) [@Merryprankster](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Merryprankster)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/27 "2004-02-05T20:04:16Z")
A waiver doesn’t stop a \*\*\*\* thing because all a person has to do is claim that what happened to them was above and beyond what they expected or that what happened was due to negligence on the part of the school. On the other hand, Judge Penn is a lawyer and knows more than me. As for me, personally, I’ve never sparred. > I believe one free match = 4 months of classes. True up to a point. Then, drilling=4 months of classes… ---
**Author:** ![Judge\_Pen](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/judge_pen/32/409_2.png) [@Judge\_Pen](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Judge_Pen)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/28 "2004-02-05T20:29:36Z")
> Originally posted by Merryprankster > A waiver doesn’t stop a \*\*\*\* thing because all a person has to do is claim that what happened to them was above and beyond what they expected or that what happened was due to negligence on the part of the school. On the other hand, Judge Penn is a lawyer and knows more than me. I don’t know about that (the “knowing more” part). A waiver can protect you from negligence for injuries that that are reasonably foreseeable. They can’t waive gross negligence, recklessness, or willful, deliberate, or intentional acts. Anyone can claim anything, but they still have the burden of proving that the injury was not one to have been reasonably anticipated. In Martial arts one can be expected to be hit, swept, thrown, etc. and the injuries that could arise from these actions are foreseeable; however, if an instructor intentionally breaks someone’s arm during class, then the waiver wouldn’t apply. If the instructor allows an “out-of-control” student to fight full contact with another student, and injury occurs, then that could be seen as recklessness and a waiver wouldn’t apply. It is a very fact specific test. Plus, arguing about everything is how people like me pay the bills. ---
**Author:** ![MasterKiller](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/masterkiller/32/407_2.png) [@MasterKiller](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MasterKiller)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/29 "2004-02-05T20:34:00Z")
> Originally posted by Merryprankster > Judge Penn is a lawyer and knows more than me. > Did hell just freeze over or something? ---
**Author:** ![Merryprankster](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/merryprankster/32/102_2.png) [@Merryprankster](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Merryprankster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/30 "2004-02-06T20:20:59Z")
> Did hell just freeze over or something? No. Hell freezes over when you stop trying to use only half my argument against me and stop ignoring the caveats and context I use them in to clarify what I mean. Then we can all go ice skating amongst the crystal flames or something. Judge Pen, I understand. I think I’m more getting at the fact that rather than truly fight the claim, most insurance companies will just settle out of court and charge the school higher rates. Due to state laws requiring insurance, that puts many places out of business. ---
**Author:** ![stimulant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@stimulant](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/stimulant)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/31 "2004-02-07T22:58:49Z")
about 10 or 11 years ago I spared with a brithish Muay Thai Champion… \*\*\*\* this guy was shape…fortunatly for me I have a relatively good defence and was good back then (my kick-boxing era) at covering up. After about 1 min of him keeping my guard up with amazingly quick jabs…he went for spin kick to my head…unfortunatly for ihm I saw it and front stamped kicked him in the @rse and floored him… he got up smiled, said ‘good shot’, and then continued to batter me with fist, knee, shin, and foot for the next 2 mins…all in all I got him with about 3 clean connecttions…he got me with about 15!!! but he didnt manage to knock me down…! oh the good old days…so glad I left them! ---
**Author:** ![Judge\_Pen](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/judge_pen/32/409_2.png) [@Judge\_Pen](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Judge_Pen)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280/32 "2004-02-08T05:01:14Z")
> Originally posted by Merryprankster > [B] Judge Pen, I understand. I think I’m more getting at the fact that rather than truly fight the claim, most insurance companies will just settle out of court and charge the school higher rates. Due to state laws requiring insurance, that puts many places out of business. [/B] You are right, but all too often insurance companies feel that they can save money by settling instead of paying a lawyer to fight, so whether the rates go up because of the settlement or the lawyers’ bills doesn’t matter. The rates will go up either way. The only ones that win are the lawyers. Having said that, the settlement will be less if there’s a wiaver then if a school didn’t have one, so they still serve a purpose. [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/sparring-experiences/25280.md?page=1)