# so what IS wrong with this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Kung Fu Forum\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591 "2011-08-08T13:19:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/1 "2011-08-08T13:19:27Z")
No one has yet explained to me what is wrong with this approach 1. Disagree all you want, but do so with logical lines of critical thought and provide at lease some example or evidence of your point [B] 2. If your posts amount to “I know secrets you don’t”, or personal insults, or rumor, BS, Chinatown gossip, etc etc then your post should be deleted and if you continue you should be banned[/B] \*application of this principle in most instances would kill the super trolls :rolleyes: 1. Asking someone for evidence of a bizzare claim or evidence to back up a questionable claim is NOT “trolling” 2. Asking someone for evidence of things they aren’t talking about or claiming IS trolling 3. If something questionable is posted, and it is posted by someone who refuses to identify themselves in any way, and if “it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck” applies, well THAT is a troll ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Dugas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/dale_dugas/32/140_2.png) [@Dale\_Dugas](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Dale_Dugas)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/2 "2011-08-08T13:30:16Z")
Dave, You and I see eye to eye on this. Anyone who does not attempt to id themselves as a human and not a subhuman piece of trash troll, should be nixed from the system ASAP. We need not the waste of bandwidth. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Jamieson](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/david_jamieson/32/19_2.png) [@David\_Jamieson](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/David_Jamieson)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/3 "2011-08-08T13:38:25Z")
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121216]No one has yet explained to me what is wrong with this approach 1. Disagree all you want, but do so with logical lines of critical thought and provide at lease some example or evidence of your point[/quote] I agree with this. > [B] 1. If your posts amount to “I know secrets you don’t”, or personal insults, or rumor, BS, Chinatown gossip, etc etc then your post should be deleted and if you continue you should be banned[/B] \*application of this principle in most instances would kill the super trolls :rolleyes: Can’t speak to banning, tha’s up to Gene, but yeah, unconstructive and unproductive posts will be weeded out as time goes. > 1. Asking someone for evidence of a bizzare claim or evidence to back up a questionable claim is NOT “trolling” > It depends on how you ask. If you are being a jerk about it then yes it can be a troll. If it’s a simple question of, “uh, I am not certain that is true, can you show me?” then that’s cool. BUt if it is some demand on the person to go searching for links and vids on the whim fo a disbeliever who by all indications couldn’t care less about your time and is just looking to cause bumps, then yes, that amounts to trolling. Or when people start asking you to use google for them. That’s idiotic and just as much trolling as anything else. > 1. Asking someone for evidence of things they aren’t talking about or claiming IS trolling > Did you just make a straw baby here? lol 😛 I mean, who does this? who? > 1. If something questionable is posted, and it is posted by someone who refuses to identify themselves in any way, and if “it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck” applies, well THAT is a troll > Pretty vague here “something questionable”. lol and most of you refuse to identify yourselves. Civil discourse that doesn’t degrade into feces flinging is desirable. Posting to the appropriate forum and it doesn’t make a difference if the front page is more active. If you have a Shaolin post, pout it in Shaolin, if it’s street fight stuff, put it in the street fighting and reality forum, if it’s about ufc, mma, fight records, what your mma club is doing etc, put it in the mma forum and so on. Harmony comes from within and spreads out. ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/4 "2011-08-08T13:44:49Z")
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1121219] Did you just make a straw baby here? lol 😛 I mean, who does this? who? [/QUOTE] I forget exactly who did this, I want to say faxiapreta, but Sanjuro had issue with it in one of the threads RECENTLY, so not at all a “straw man” ---
**Author:** ![sanjuro\_ronin](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sanjuro_ronin/32/793_2.png) [@sanjuro\_ronin](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sanjuro_ronin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:08pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/5 "2011-08-08T14:08:02Z")
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121223]I forget exactly who did this, I want to say faxiapreta, but Sanjuro had issue with it in one of the threads RECENTLY, so not at all a “straw man”[/QUOTE] If I can use Dale as an example. Dale posts videos and makes claims about IP and IB and his herb products. I don’t recall any of the videos claiming that those things MAKE anyone a better fighter. He makes the claim the IP can enable you to break slabs and his puts a video of breaking slabs. He claims that IB can help you take shots and he puts a video of him taking shots. Nowhere doe she claim they will make you a better fighter or give you fighting skill. YET, he keeps getting asked to put of videos of him fighting. Non sequitor much? If I put up a video on HOW TO CONDITION the PE fist (which I did), It is NOT about how to use it in a fight or how to fight or how effective it is in a fight, it is about HOW TO CONDITION IT. So, asking for a video about something that is NOT being claimed is, quite simply, trolling. Or being a real freaking idiot with the reading comprehension of a rooster. ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/6 "2011-08-08T14:10:43Z")
[QUOTE=sanjuro\_ronin;1121230] Or being a real freaking idiot with the reading comprehension of a rooster.[/QUOTE] insulting roosters will not be tolerated! MODERATOR! MODERATOR! 😃 Thanks for reminding me what I was thinking about, yes, that thread ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Dugas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/dale_dugas/32/140_2.png) [@Dale\_Dugas](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Dale_Dugas)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/7 "2011-08-08T14:24:16Z")
Thanks Paul for an incredible example of how I get trolled by net ghosts. Spot on with what happens. ---
**Author:** ![sanjuro\_ronin](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sanjuro_ronin/32/793_2.png) [@sanjuro\_ronin](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sanjuro_ronin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/8 "2011-08-08T14:27:10Z")
[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;1121233]Thanks Paul for an incredible example of how I get trolled by net ghosts. Spot on with what happens.[/QUOTE] Anytime Bro and I would defend anyone else under the same context. IF Dale was suggesting that his system of H2H works against MMA then a video showing him or a student fighting VS a MMA fighter would be called for. Context. Just like when someone claims they have the real WC or HK or CLF and that what others are doing is not correct or authentic then YES, indeed, SOME evidence MUST be shown to back up said comment. ---
**Author:** ![Hardwork108](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/839c29/32.png) [@Hardwork108](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Hardwork108)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/9 "2011-08-08T15:51:46Z")
[QUOTE=sanjuro\_ronin;1121230]If I can use Dale as an example. Dale posts videos and makes claims about IP and IB and his herb products. I don’t recall any of the videos claiming that those things MAKE anyone a better fighter. He makes the claim the IP can enable you to break slabs and his puts a video of breaking slabs. He claims that IB can help you take shots and he puts a video of him taking shots. Nowhere doe she claim they will make you a better fighter or give you fighting skill. YET, he keeps getting asked to put of videos of him fighting. Non sequitor much? If I put up a video on HOW TO CONDITION the PE fist (which I did), It is NOT about how to use it in a fight or how to fight or how effective it is in a fight, it is about HOW TO CONDITION IT.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=sanjuro\_ronin;1121230]So, asking for a video about something that is NOT being claimed is, quite simply, trolling. Or being a real freaking idiot with the reading comprehension of a rooster.[/QUOTE] Yet, all of the methodologies you listed above, that are practiced by you and Dale, DO have fighting applications. So, that would raise the question as to what kind of a martial artist will not see the relationaship between potent Iron Skills and a conditioned Phoenix Eye fist, with fighting? I mean it is not rocket science. The next question would be, who is the troll, the man who practices the above skill developments, but refuses to give Youtube “evidence”, or the man who is dumb enough not to connect those skills to actual combat applications? ---
**Author:** ![sanjuro\_ronin](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/sanjuro_ronin/32/793_2.png) [@sanjuro\_ronin](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/sanjuro_ronin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/10 "2011-08-08T15:57:52Z")
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1121254]Yet, all of the methodologies you listed above, that are practiced by you and Dale, DO have fighting applications. So, that would raise the question as to what kind of a martial artist will not see the relationaship between potent Iron Skills and a conditioned Phoenix Eye fist, with fighting? I mean it is not rocket science. The next question would be, who is the troll, the man who practices the above skill developments, but refuses to give Youtube “evidence”, or the man who is dumb enough not to connect those skills to actual combat applications?[/QUOTE] All of them can and are to be applied in fighting and yes, most MA should be able to connect the dots without being “held” along the way. I agree with you in that regard. That said I don’t have issues with people asking for video evidence for things, after all this is the video age, I just have issues with people asking for video evidence of something not being discussed. As for you point about putting up a fighting video. The answer is really quite simple. Some of us do NOT have access to sparring partners that are willing to be filmed just for the sake of answering the questions of anonimous people on the net. People NOT willing to do the very thing they ask other to do. Personally I enjoy doing my MA as it is now and have retired from active competition years ago and while I do spar on occasion what I will not do is make that sparring session about a video for someone that doesn’t really deserve the time I would have to put into it “just for them”. ---
**Author:** ![HumbleWCGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/77aa72/32.png) [@HumbleWCGuy](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/HumbleWCGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/11 "2011-08-08T16:08:17Z")
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121216]No one has yet explained to me what is wrong with this approach 1. Disagree all you want, but do so with logical lines of critical thought and provide at lease some example or evidence of your point [B] 2. If your posts amount to “I know secrets you don’t”, or personal insults, or rumor, BS, Chinatown gossip, etc etc then your post should be deleted and if you continue you should be banned[/B] \*application of this principle in most instances would kill the super trolls :rolleyes: 1. Asking someone for evidence of a bizzare claim or evidence to back up a questionable claim is NOT “trolling” 2. Asking someone for evidence of things they aren’t talking about or claiming IS trolling 3. If something questionable is posted, and it is posted by someone who refuses to identify themselves in any way, and if “it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck” applies, well THAT is a troll[/QUOTE] This is pretty much what you do. You are only playing nice now because the mods finally jumped on you. I suspect that if you continue to complain about moderation that Gene will step in at some point and show you the door as I am sure that most other boards already have. ---
**Author:** ![Hardwork108](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/839c29/32.png) [@Hardwork108](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Hardwork108)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/12 "2011-08-08T16:09:58Z")
[QUOTE=sanjuro\_ronin;1121257]All of them can and are to be applied in fighting and yes, most MA should be able to connect the dots without being “held” along the way. I agree with you in that regard. That said I don’t have issues with people asking for video evidence for things, after all this is the video age, I just have issues with people asking for video evidence of something not being discussed. As for you point about putting up a fighting video. The answer is really quite simple. Some of us do NOT have access to sparring partners that are willing to be filmed just for the sake of answering the questions of anonimous people on the net. People NOT willing to do the very thing they ask other to do. Personally I enjoy doing my MA as it is now and have retired from active competition years ago and while I do spar on occasion what I will not do is make that sparring session about a video for someone that doesn’t really deserve the time I would have to put into it “just for them”.[/QUOTE] And if you do put up a fighting video where you do well against another fighter for the benefit of someone who does not deserve it, then he will more likely turn around and say, “oh your opponent was push over, or a fake”. If you put up none fighting video of some of the more complicated kung fu concepts and their explanations, then you will be told that it would not work in real fight, or it was “fantasy”, just as you would, if you were writing about them. At the end of the day, those who know of given TCMA methodologies will recognize them in writing, or if their experience of genuine TCMAs is somewhat different, then they will at least understand and appreciate them, even if they have not had direct experience in that particular practice. However, if the person who is discussing them with you has no point of reference, then you can show them all the videos; give them your name, address and telephone number; your dog’s name; the name of the highschool you studied in, etc, and it will not make any difference as regards their TCMA cluelessness. One of my main points is that the whole video “evidence” thing has a potential (not always, of course) to go into endless circles. ---
**Author:** ![TenTigers](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/tentigers/32/74_2.png) [@TenTigers](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/TenTigers)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/13 "2011-08-08T16:12:03Z")
again, it’s not rocket science. If someone gives a thorough explanation on a technique, or on structure, in most cases, for someone with average intelligence, it is more than enough. If they would like more clarification, there is no reason why they couldn’t ask for a video to further explain or demonstrate. But it is certainly not required or necessary. There is a huge difference between that, and saying that if you can’t put up a video of you using it in a cage, than you are full of it. We are trying to eliminate azoles. I remember talking to someone years ago, the topic was Yang Jwing-Ming. He was to give a seminar locally and we were discussing going to it. I had mentioned that I had a great deal of respect for him due to the fact that he brought out a huge amount of information that previously was not available to the non-Chinese speaking/reading community. He translated many older texts, and wrote very detailed books on such subjects as Chin-na, Ch’i-gung, Northern Shaolin, Fukien White Crane, etc..He was not only a Martial Artist, but educated-he had a Phd. So he was a scholar as well. The other guy says, “Yeah, but can he fight?” I pondered his response, and wondered, “How does it feel to be that stupid?” ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/14 "2011-08-08T17:34:59Z")
[QUOTE=sanjuro\_ronin;1121257] All of them can and are to be applied in fighting and yes, most MA should be able to connect the dots without being “held” along the way. I agree with you in that regard. That said I don’t have issues with people asking for video evidence for things, after all this is the video age, [/QUOTE] Forget video, how about just plain EVIDENCE. “Boxers can hit hard” - we have TONS of video of it, we have tons of evidence for it. It isn’t exactly an “out there” statement Can people who practice “internal” or “iron palm” etc fight? Well, that is NOT even the question. The question is, does that stuff make any difference in HOW they fight or more importantly in how EFFECTIVELY they fight And if “person x” makes the statement, it doesn’t necessarily have to be “person x” in the video If “person x” says “REAL kung fu” is so much better than any other fighting art, well, where is the evidence of this statement? :rolleyes: Well? ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/15 "2011-08-08T17:36:46Z")
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1121264] the topic was Yang Jwing-Ming. [/QUOTE] I am going to say things you probably already know 1. yes, he can 2. but many say it isn’t with his long fist, which is the art he first made his “name” with 3. tons of people dislike him, and it has nothing to do with either (1) or (2) ---
**Author:** ![Hardwork108](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/839c29/32.png) [@Hardwork108](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Hardwork108)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/16 "2011-08-08T23:16:32Z")
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121283]Forget video, how about just plain EVIDENCE. “Boxers can hit hard” - we have TONS of video of it, we have tons of evidence for it. It isn’t exactly an “out there” statement[/QUOTE] I can do better than that. Dale Dugas can hit hard and he has video evidence of it. Furthermore, his door is always open. So, why don’t you hop along to his kwoon and ask for a personal demonstration? [QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121283]Can people who practice “internal” or “iron palm” etc fight? Well, that is NOT even the question. The question is, does that stuff make any difference in HOW they fight or more importantly in how EFFECTIVELY they fight[/QUOTE] That is a question for YOU, because you have never practiced Internals, nor Iron Palm, and again, why don’t you go to Dale Dugas, and ask him to show you his approach? There are many others besides Dale Dugas, but I mention him because he is member of his forum and he has more than once said that he would be glad to “demonstrate” his way. [QUOTE=lkfmdc;1121283]If “person x” says “REAL kung fu” is so much better than any other fighting art, well, where is the evidence of this statement? :rolleyes: Well?[/QUOTE] You know, with this post of yours you are just saying that you have never practiced authentic kung fu and hence not only that you cannot make it work in combat, but you assume that no one else can, either! :rolleyes: So again, go to Dale Dugas, who will provide you with evidence. Otherwise, go to your local China Town and find a sifu who is around your age and touch hands with him. I would suggest that you consider the Dale Dugas option first, because the man knows you and will show you pity, whereas in the China Town fights, as you probably know from your CTS days, things can turn very nasty for you. I will repeat, as I have repeated so many times before to others - “evidence” is there for those who seek it, but if you are hoping to get your “evidence” of methodologies that you have never practiced yourself, from an internet forum, then I am afraid that you will be disappointed and when you persist like you are, then you are going to be called a troll. ---
**Author:** ![bawang](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/bawang/32/3554_2.png) [@bawang](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/bawang)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/17 "2011-08-08T23:18:20Z")
hi hardwork, i did not read a single word of what you just wrote. sincerely, steve johnson ---
**Author:** ![Hardwork108](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/839c29/32.png) [@Hardwork108](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Hardwork108)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/18 "2011-08-09T00:40:19Z")
[QUOTE=bawang;1121519]hi hardwork, i did not read a single word of what you just wrote. sincerely, steve johnson[/QUOTE] Why should you have read it? After all, my post was not directed at you! Could it be that you have finally started to mind your own business? If so, then hooray for personal evolution! ---
**Author:** ![YouKnowWho](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/youknowwho/32/583_2.png) [@YouKnowWho](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/YouKnowWho)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/19 "2011-08-09T00:49:39Z")
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1121264]Yang Jwing-Ming…The other guy says, “Yeah, but can he fight?”[/QUOTE] Yang is my longfist brother. One of my senior longfist brother (the instructor of “5 tigers club” in NYC) introduced him to my longfist teacher during his college years. Since I trained my longfist in high school and Yang trained his longfist in college, we had never met in Taiwan. As far as I know, he started his sparring in his 1st year of his longfist training. he also forced his students to spar no matter they like it or not (one of his studnets is also my student). ---
**Author:** ![Kansuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/91b2a8/32.png) [@Kansuke](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Kansuke)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591/20 "2011-08-09T01:05:16Z")
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1121516] You know, with this post of yours you are just saying that you have never practiced authentic kung fu go to your local China Town and find a sifu who is around your age and touch hands with him. in the China Town fights things can turn very nasty for you. I will repeat, as I have repeated so many times before to others - “evidence” is there for those who seek it, but if you are hoping to get your “evidence” of methodologies that you have never practiced yourself, from an internet forum, then I am afraid that you will be disappointed .[/QUOTE] For cryin’ out loud, RULE #2!!! [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/so-what-is-wrong-with-this/51591.md?page=2)