LOL!
I, sorry Liddel, but you could easily re-phrase this question as āwhen you kick, are you standing on one leg?ā
When kicking, you are using the SLHS, any kind of kickā¦ANY! (because you have to stand on one leg)
Any SLHS training is developing the balance and coordination to stand on one leg while kickingā¦of course, you donāt HAVE to call it SLHSā¦
Mr Justin I am thinking you have hit the nail on the head . . . I would add though that every step we take involves SLHS too.
Thanks,
Ghost
Refinedā¦
Thats basically the answer i was after, one way or anotherā¦
What i was getting at was, that most people ive seen that say they are VT use kicks that dont come from VT IMHOā¦ they use longer range kick boxing etc kicks or something they have developed by themselves or at thier school which doesnt use the structure of the VT SLHS. Which is fine if it worksā¦
Every kick must have one foot off the ground, but every kick doesnt use the structure of the VT SLHS, they are different in my experience. Therefore because of the different structure they each have different ways of generating powerā¦
So my question does make sence if looked at from my POV, sorry i should have been more specific.
Or perhaps our SLHS is totally different from each other -
However if you think that the SLHS is just as simple as Standing on one leg, when IMO the structures are totally different then -
you have answered my question about this aspect of VT, or lack there-of.
I ask because i see VT kicks in forms - i see them in drills - but i very rarely see them applied in sparring/fighting with the same structure power use that people train forā¦ Its like training your center punch your whole life and then you fight and only use a hookā¦ even when the opportunity is in front of youā¦
Lets test my theory ( i could be wrong ?)
Anyone have any vids of āVT kicksā being used other than form/drills ?
Liddel,
I think your point is well taken. While the kick is in a simple sense is āstanding on one legā, thereās much more to it then that within the context of Wing Chun structure. Itās like saying a punch is just hitting someone with your fist.
IMO many of the traditional WC kicks are unsuitable for anything other than very controlled sparring because they target the knee or ankle. Such kicks are also illegal in most kickboxing and MT rules. Like heel hooks in grappling, far too easy to get and the potential consequences far too serious. Knee recos are getting better with faster recovery all the time, but you DONāt want one if you can avoid it.
My knees have taken enough training abuse already (numerous MCL tears and one bad cartilage) without being exposed to that sort of risk.
My instructorās adoption of less WC-specific kicks came from his days kickboxing in the late 70ās early 80ās when kicks below the waist were borderline illegal and were not scoring techniques. And they work.
If you can kick high targets with speed and power you can generally adapt to low targets without difficulty. The reverse is not always so true.
WC isnāt unique in this regard. Savate has a smorgasbord of crippling and damaging kicks to low level targets. But they do not spar with these with any power for the reasons given.
I tried SLT in crane stance on the weekend. Frankly, I didnāt find it particularly difficult. It would be much more of a challenge with larger movements than those found in WC. I do a crane form which has a lot more intricate footwork, multiple kicks on one leg, etc., which is much more challenging than this (and more interesting).
It might be taxing if I did SLT on one leg for an hour, though Iād have to wonder whether that hour couldnāt be put to training uses that were a lot more productive.
Now what MIGHT be a challenge is doing the pole form in single leg stance.
Mind training
Anerlick sez: It might be taxing if I did SLT on one leg for an hour, though Iād have to wonder whether that hour couldnāt be put to training uses that were a lot more productive.
Try it and see! LOL
Iāve seen many people do āSNT on one legā before, often their stance is very high and their other leg is very low. IMHO, itās not training much at all. I genuinely do think that time could be spent better doing something else - like perfecting SNT on both legs, and practicing kicking/footwork seperately. Bring it all together in sparring and chi sau. If you want to practice āsingle leg horseā fair enough, but doing SNT in it is not very productive IMO.
Sek: I havenāt done the single leg SNT for that duration either. Thatās why I wanted Anerlick to try and let me know the results LOL
You are correct in that poor training does not improve anything.
One of my music instructors used to say: āPractice doesnāt make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect.ā
You cannot judge a training methodology by referring to lazy people that donāt want to work hard or go outside of their comfort zone.
Training on one leg has a long history in China, Russia, and in modern sports and dance. Try the following and then tell me that it doesnāt train anythingā¦
[URL=āhttp://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/conditioning/a/aa110103a.htmā]
Hmmmmm
if im not mistake ( and im sorry if i am ) i thought the horse stance and SLHS was for leg condtiong, 2 make our stance better and fitness in the legs. if u want 2 train power and make a kick or punch or even technique stronger, faster or more powerfull then u train that punch,kick or technique:)
ok
Seems like a large part of the people responding have used the SLHS with regard to standing on one spot doing formā¦ while i think this is fine i wonder about other drills that you may do ? (if any)
One Example -
Stand in SLHS, get someone to grab your foot at the heel of your kicking leg (foot in front of your body), keep your kneeās bent, then have them pull you around the room without you making your legs straight.
Obviously the floor must be smooth and you will need a sock on the grounded footā¦
Sifu told me about a time when he saw two of his brothers try to starighten TSTās leg in a similar fashon but failed because his leg power was quite large.
Good for retrieving a caught kickā¦and kicking power.
I have several drills related to the SLHS, the above example is one of them what about you guys, do you practice the one mentioned or others ?
Curious :rolleyes:
Power, conditioning, speed, and technique are not mutually exclusive. The stronger and more flexible your legs are, the more you can focus on control of power. If your legs are tight, weak, and have a decreased range of motion; this will directly affect your power and technique (while also increasing the chances for injury).
If your stance is weak, then chances are no technique is going to be effective no matter how long you train that specific technique.
The key to one-legged training is that we are training balance, strength, and control through a specific range of motion. These are not addressed by standard weight training exercises (leg extensions, leg curls, squats, etc.).
-GFH
No comment ?
Good points GungFuHillbilly,
I notice no one has addressed the second question in my post related to using kicks when the hands are in contactā¦ what is your approach and why ?
Just to clarify - this IS NOT a bee-arch session where i want to uncover the WRONG actions of other VT schools because mine is the ONLY right way :eek:
If youāve read my posts in other threads you know im an open minded person who accepts others opinions :rolleyes:
I just want to hear thoughts on the subject ?
3 ways to train the legs using a kung fu approachā¦
Duck walk (i know, already mentioned)
Bunny hops. Same as duck walk in form but you hop around.
Standing straight, grab one leg by the toes. The leg you grab will be straight or should be for balance. In other words, plant your right foot and grab your left foot with your left hand. You will have better balance if your leg is straight. Then you do a one legged squat, maintaining your balance. Go ALL the way down until your butt is touching your planted foot and go back up. You cannot touch the ground! This exercise is the king of single leg training. Very difficult. Trains strength, balance, explosive power, and flexabilityā¦
Anyone try #3? Really tough!
thats the simplicity, its wing chun, if you are a gd wing chun practicioneer you would not need alot of motion to generate power for a strike, be it kicking, elbowing or punching.
Single Leg
Wing Chun is a complete system, and because of that has a complete set of leg training exercises, starting with:
1- Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma
2- Chor Ma
3- Traditional Horse Stance and traditional squats
4- Single Leg Posture
5- Single Leg Extensions
6- Kicks in the air
7- Gaan Gurk
8- Dan Chi Gurk
9- Seung Chi Gurk
10- Kicking with the Mok Yan Jong
11- 8 leg motion with the Mok Yan Jong
These exercises provide more than enough opportunities for leg development. Plus they collected into Wing Chun, since many years ago. I think we should not understimate the experience of such people in the past had, and we should spend time training hard and not trying to reinvent the wheel!!!
obs:
Be very careful about your knees. You only have 2.
Traditionally Wing Chun kicks are practiced mainly against the Mok Yan Jong. No pads or bags.
Be careful with teachers that put too much enphasis on classes with 500~1000 kicks. Quality is much more important than quantity.
Be careful with military kind of squat exercises (duck, bunny, etcā¦) They DO NOT have anything to do with control, flexibility and wing chun relaxed leg power.
The stretching used in leg training of Wing Chun is NOT the same as the stretching of some others martial arts.
The stretching used in leg training of Wing Chun is NOT the same as the stretching of some others martial arts.
Could you elaborate?
I was aware that sensible flexibility and mobility training should be activity specific, per modern sports science, but not that it was quite this precise in its specificity.
My Sifu has a very high level of flexibility, and regularly demonstrates this and his kicking skills at MA exhibitions and the like. by all accounts sihing/James on this list is a flexibile and skilful kicker also.
AFAIK my sifu never needed any WC-specific stretching drills. Still, Iām sure he, and the rest of us would be very keen to hear about your WC-specific stuff.
about stretching:
In Wing Chun you do the stretching when you practice Wing Chun forms, exercises, etcā¦
For example, leg stretching: Single leg posture, Single leg slow extensions, and all the already mentioned leg exercisesā¦
Technically saying the Wing Chun kind of stretching is more a DYNAMIC kind and not a STATIC kind.
Technically saying the Wing Chun kind of stretching is more a DYNAMIC kind and not a STATIC kind.
Well, OK, but most modern coaches do few static flexibility drills anyway. Itās all mobility drills, dynamic flexibility exercises, and static active flexibility exercises (like the leg extension drills you mentioned). Iso metric flexibility if you want fast progress and your body can take it.
I canāt see the difference myself, unless your trying to say that supplementary flexibility and mobility training is either unnecessary or counterproductive ofr learning WC, a position I canāt agree with.