Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
[B]After a roundhouse kick that has either missed or gone through the target such that my back is semi-exposed. I mix it up with the back kick, spinning back fist, sweep or just spinning around back into a covered & ready position.
So basically, when I’m outside of punching range and my back is semi exposed - if I kick with the foot closest to the opponent, it’s a side kick (normally done with a little hop for that extra oomph). [/B]
Oh OK, in that situation I would usually come back with a wheel kick along the same line. It becomes the opposite direction along the same swing, which I find easier to stabilize than changing vector completely and using a side kick. I can see how the hop can help you to stabilize though. Cheers.
Isn’t a back kick particularly weak from this position? I’ve never studied and art that uses one.
Bmore Banga[b]
It’s a little hard to throw combinations behind it- but I believe that just takes a lot of dedication and practise; like figuring out how to throw it from a more squared up stance & return to that squared stance quickly.
[/b]Maybe that was a problem. I never put enough time into it based on similar observations to ST00 and my lack of flexibility (like you Oso, I don’t usually try for higher than the midriff - of course in wing chun there aren’t so many calls to use high kicks, and I mostly use the side into the post leg at close range coming straight off a low roundhouse/sweep/stamp to the lead leg).
One of my karate sempai could shoot one out at nearly clinch range, which would take your head off if it caught you.
BTW CroCop seems to be doing OK without it! The Russians don’t seem to go in for distance keepers either.
Ai Lick
Nice english BTW, “for those of you, who a side kick.” How nice. I’ve never had a Net stalker before. Like a spell check, but easier to beat. And not as growed up. (We used a big E in my skool since you’re being picky.)
Originally posted by Mat BTW CroCop seems to be doing OK without it! The Russians don’t seem to go in for distance keepers either.
I only bring it up after CroCop-Randleman 1 & 2, and CroCop-Silva.
His strategy’s real dependent on keeping you outside and taking your head off before you close distance. With Fujita he had a nice knee going for him coz Fujita shot a bit too far out and too low. How easy were Randleman and Silva able to close distance with him? Once they got there it was a matter of how well his sprawl and brawl was working on the particular opponent. As much as i like CroCop; Randleman gave him a gift with that guillotine in the 2nd match.
ST00
I’ll take your word on MMA and how the sidekick loses a little luster once the game don’t stop at the take down and the takedowns can get a lot uglier. Tiger White used one once in a smaller show; but yah, noone’s really used them. Wonder if Marvin could use it.
Originally posted by BMore Banga As much as i like CroCop; Randleman gave him a gift with that guillotine in the 2nd match. Man, I could have got that! And it cracks me up how a load of people were saying, ‘Oh yeah, here’s the proof CroCop’s really been working his ground game’! Gotta work on keeping my head up… I’m always getting caught the same way in the shoot.
So what’s your follow-up combo from the sidekick? If you’re using it as a jab you must have some pretty quick follow-up. I suppose if you’ve worked the flexibility to be able to successfully deliver it from a squarer stance, you’ve got more pick-and-choose…
Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00 If I led with it, I’d follow up with the right overhand from hell! and then move back out.
ok, right side kick or left sidekick?
and actually, my most oft used kick is something i’ll call oso-da
it’s a cross between a front, a side and a round. If I pull it off right i can switch between the ball of the foot or the heel and with the foot in either vert or horiz position…it’s ugly but does land upon occasion.
Originally posted by Oso
[B]ok, right side kick or left sidekick?
and actually, my most oft used kick is something i’ll call oso-da
it’s a cross between a front, a side and a round. If I pull it off right i can switch between the ball of the foot or the heel and with the foot in either vert or horiz position…it’s ugly but does land upon occasion. [/B]
left sidekick ->right overhand/cross
When you set that foot back on terra firma, you should already be leaning in and planting on it to launch the right.
Originally posted by Mat So what’s your follow-up combo from the sidekick?
Rear left straight - lead right hook - rear left straight; all while covering distance, coz if i’m following up i’ve likely got a runner.
I suppose if you’ve worked the flexibility to be able to successfully deliver it from a squarer stance, you’ve got more pick-and-choose…
actually, you start square, then you have to go sideways for the kick (no other way), getting back to square is the tricky part.
Ideally i think you should fire something rear hand and combine with the force of trying to get your hips back square.
I used to be more successful shooting, then something changed and i became less successful; i think it was the change in lead.
I always shot right foot stepping though, but it still probably affects my angle of entry. Probly not as much penetration now either. Still playing with it to see what i can fix, but need more training partners my size.
First three Excersizes listed on the far right are great for increasing speed and strength of one’s side kick.
I only open with a side kick if the other guy is charging with no real skill, but rather like a bull charging the red cape. A quikc set up, then jam it into thier gut; usually peeps who attack like this aren’t wtching what you are doing, and even if they do see it comming, they can’t slow down enought to keep from getting knocked on thier bumms.
To follow up with it? Lots of stuff works but you must drill it, because little of it feels natural at first. If your spin techniques are fast, you can follow up with a spin-jump creasant then close what ever distance is left and lay into the ribs/kidneys.
Originally posted by BMore Banga Rear left straight - lead right hook - rear left straight; all while covering distance, coz if i’m following up i’ve likely got a runner.
Excatly, you can also add some low round kicks in that mix as well.
I would have to weigh in with JP and Oso on that, when I have thrown side kicks in fights, it has been mainly a response to people rushing in. The gut (or dan tien if you prefer) being the target. The combination of throwing the side kick & leaning your weight into it, plus the force of their rush, combine at the gut. It might not KO people, but they seem to not enjoy it, plus it helps keep from going into a clinch or bowled over…
A side kick to head level?? A worthy goal…but if it really matters who wins the fight, keep them waist level (or lower), else one is asking to be kicked in the supporting leg or swept or otherwise upended…
pound for pound side kick is my most forceful kick except maybe for a good solid back kick.
work it onthe heavy bag from two ranges…the rage where you stand and kick it without having to move from that spot, and the longer rnge where you take a chambering step or whatever it is properly called…
I don’t particularly like the side kick. It’s ok at stopping rushes or charges. I noticed some people say they use them to stop from being bowled over but I see it happen as often as it doesn’t using sidekicks anyway. Usually they fold up at the knee and hip. Sometimes the guy recieving the kick gets the message but usually it doesn’t seem to have enough of an effect to make it worth it, except possibly to push off your opponent and gain some room.
I do practice low side kicks to the knee for self defense reasons. I like the knee as a target, but I don’t often use them in sparring.
Originally posted by red5angel it doesn’t seem to have enough of an effect to make it worth it, except possibly to push off your opponent and gain some room.
Sometimes that’s a good effect of a side kick too. Push off their hip to give you some space.
it’s true that almost any kick can be jammed, if the opponent is of a sufficient skill level…
I have only gotten into it a couple of times with anyone hwho seemed to have trained, most times just ignorant belligerent bst@ges that needed to get ejected from the bar I worked at…for the most part.
One of the best (most efficient use) times, I was slugging it out with a guy, he was sort of a windmiller, flailing with both sides, alternating. I landed a hard one to his grill which knocked him back about a half step. Then I turned away like I was going to run. He went to launch himself after me, only to eat up a BACK kick to the belly. I felt my foot hit his gut, it was soft and then compressed hard at the apex of the kick. He totally groaned and I could feel the vibration of it traveling up my leg. Took a lot of the fight out of him. It was easy after that…btw, he was so humiliated at being thrashed by an ‘old’ guy, he called the cops from outside & claimed that I stood on his foot & punched him 'when he couldn’t get away…" :rolleyes: Even the cops were laffin.
So that’s sort of the idea, I know that ‘meeting force with force’ is typically eschewed within MA and especially CMA…but that’s a good technique to use when someone is making a charge at you. Maybe I just have an exta strong side kick, I work it as a main technique on the heavy bag.
As far as comparing it to a front kick, I can’t get the same blast force with a front kick. My front heel kick has some pop to it, but its more like a jab almost compared to my s/k.
Another guy was giving me a hard time, wouldn’t leave, all ****y…eventually when I finally greenlighted on his ass, he ate up a hook punch to the jaw, he reacted by bending forward at the waist, I guess he was trying to cover his face. Looked like he was looking for something on the floor…what he found was a rising front kick to the center of his face, his buddy had to help him go home. That’s one of the few times I can remember using a front kick in a fight, and probably the most effective front kick I’ve thrown, that comes to mind.
I am a predominantly northern stylist so forgive me while I blashpeme and say that side kicks are very effective, but kicking high is often dangerous flash and overrated. I find side kicks are more powerful and effective when planted anywhere from the torso down.
I have used high side kicks effectively, most memorably in my earlier days of training , sparring in karate tournaments kicking opponents out of the air. High side kicks are very useful for this purpose, if you’re ever faced with overzealous karateka or taekwondoers who decide to launch an attack on you by taking flight.
i usually wind up posting more than I intended…but yeah, if you spend an appropriate amount of time working the basics, they will be in your “tool kit” when you really need them. I think when Sifus talk about working the basics, they have that in mind, in part at least.
I’m envisioning you guys kicking TKD’ers out of the air & I like it…that jumping backfist thing seems like a product of point fighting strategy. I could see someone arcing through the air (in Slo-Mo) and then VrrrvvrvrvrrrTTT!!! (sound of a phonograph needle skating across a record), bam! halted by a sidekick
Sometimes that’s a good effect of a side kick too. Push off their hip to give you some space.
yep, that’s more often then not, what I see happening on a side kick. Of course like anything in the martial arts it all depends on your ability to generate power, your speed to get set up properly and your skill level.
The knee is a deflection or block to a low or middle level rising or round house kick. Go through the block…turn thigh over–chamber then kick the off balanced person.
Intimidation. To catch your breath one might threaten a firststep sidekick or a chambered sidekick to give pause. The other person not wanting to get hit hard.
Step in spinning sidekick for going around or spinning close to your ally to reach the opponent. The extension is paused to hit the target.
Cham,ber being used for power, less pullback to allow a quicker kick. kick to interfere with support leg or kicking leg.
drop the outstretched~ leg at or behind where you were standing:
Take a guard(ed) position
Hop instead of drop. Ma a back kick with the supporting leg of the initial sidekick.
Fold the knee and pivot to face your body forward. press your foot(toe out), driving the heel.
A side kick is intimidating whether or not it is used. Used in training against an object, it strengthens the support leg and instructs as to recoil. It’s a training developing kick. It’s a power kick–therefore used less often for when the opponent is less likely to offer much resistance…in general
And it cracks me up how a load of people were saying, ‘Oh yeah, here’s the proof CroCop’s really been working his ground game’! 
