# Should you sign a contract for instruction? **URL:** \ **Category:** Kung Fu Forum\ **Created:** [April 30, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673 "2007-04-30T18:20:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Lucas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lucas/32/819_2.png) [@Lucas](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Lucas)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 7:21am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/81 "2008-01-11T07:21:38Z")
[QUOTE=ngokfei;833416]Does he pay rent? or is instruction done in a park or his basement?[/QUOTE] he teaches in a nice big building down in chinatown. Not sure if he pays rent or not, though he has a good student base because he is a wealth of knowledge, enjoys to teach, and cares for his students well being. the month to month basis works great for me. plus i think he has students who frequently travel as well, so this accomidation is wonderful as it allows one to come into town and recieve instruction for a few months, then leave, and return later to further the training. ---
**Author:** ![the\_Preacher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@the\_Preacher](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/the_Preacher)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/82 "2008-01-11T21:44:25Z")
No Contract I feel there is NO Contract needed if you have something to offer people will come and happily pay EX: Owner could have the Participant first Sign waiver of liability then least expensive taste test $10hr- Open Gym can utilize equipment only- no instruction anyone at select hours only Instructional Classes first collect Registration Fee: ($45) yearly need a calendar showing billing cycle “One Free Class” “Free School T-Shirt” monthly billing Ex 4hrs= $60 8hrs= $100 12hrs= $125 16hrs= $140 more hours = cheaper per hour prorate first month no make ups, no refunds no checks cash or credit/debit only private lessons$50 hr I think month by month is the best its easy for someone to start or depart if someone didn’t want to be there ..why make them? ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/83 "2008-01-11T22:11:06Z")
1. go open a commercial gym, with a 5 year lease 2. implement your above plan 3. After 6 months, let us know if you have been evicted and/or are still in business ---
**Author:** ![diego](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/diego/32/124_2.png) [@diego](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/diego)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/84 "2008-01-11T22:51:20Z")
my buddy did a year contract at a kickboxing club in north vancouver…you pay all the fees, but eventually the boss is like oh you want to learn elbows of muay thai, \*\*\*\* you pay me…you want advanced sparring \*\*\*\* you pay me…if you want to learn to spar you pay the contracts…if you want to learn to fight you gotta pay all these backdoor seceret fees…he was miffed as a streetfighter knowing he could dummy most in the gym…eventually he was sparring with one of the guys in class and messed up an axe kick throwing out his knee for a good three months…a week after he hurt hiumself and told the boss he’d have to quit cuz surgery is in a few months, the gym owner tried to cash all the checks…like 6 months worth…that is just lame…i don’t care if you don’t like the guy how you gonna claim 6 monthsd pay for something you haven’t even done yet… ---
**Author:** ![the\_Preacher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@the\_Preacher](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/the_Preacher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/85 "2008-01-12T00:49:55Z")
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;833702]1. go open a commercial gym, with a 5 year lease 1. implement your above plan 2. After 6 months, let us know if you have been evicted and/or are still in business[/QUOTE] after 9 years I think it works great ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pai\_Sifu](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lama_pai_sifu/32/603_2.png) [@Lama\_Pai\_Sifu](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Lama_Pai_Sifu)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/86 "2008-01-12T01:48:22Z")
[QUOTE=the Preacher;833732]after 9 years I think it works great[/QUOTE] I wonder if you wouldn’t mind indulging me with answers to a few questions? 1. How are you keeping track of their ‘hours’ as to adjust their monthly billing? 2. Why don’t you take checks? 3. With no contract, what method of cancellation do you use? 4. How do people pay thier tuition? 5. Do you have discounts for paid in full memberships? 6. What equipment do you have that people are willing to pay $10 an hour to use? (I ask because I train at a gym that costs $12 Mil to build and it’s only $49 per month. They have a basketball court, sauna, jacuzzi, pool, 300 pieces or cardio equip..etc.) 7. How many members do you have? 8. What is your rent and square footage? 9. How many employees? (Part time/Full time) 10. How many classes per week? 11. Do you teach kids? And what do you teach by the way?? Very curious as your explanations of what you already do are so very much against the grain of any successful school/gym model. Peace ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/87 "2008-01-12T02:00:07Z")
[QUOTE=the Preacher;833732]after 9 years I think it works great[/QUOTE] what is the name of your school and where is it located? web page? ---
**Author:** ![the\_Preacher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@the\_Preacher](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/the_Preacher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/88 "2008-01-12T04:35:43Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pai Sifu;833738]I wonder if you wouldn’t mind indulging me with answers to a few questions?[/QUOTE] SURE, [I] 1. How are you keeping track of their ‘hours’ as to adjust their monthly billing?[/I] each student prepays for their desired hours each month, then just check off when they come 2. Why don’t you take checks? NSF 3. With no contract, what method of cancellation do you use? cancellation for what 4. How do people pay thier tuition? most people I suppose have to work? 5. Do you have discounts for paid in full memberships? No discount No membership only month by month 6. What equipment do you have that people are willing to pay $10 an hour to use? (I ask because I train at a gym that costs $12 Mil to build and it’s only $49 per month. They have a basketball court, sauna, jacuzzi, pool, 300 pieces or cardio equip..etc.) sport specific 7. How many members do you have? usually around 250, each month is different 8. What is your rent and square footage? too much 8586sqft just under $10,000 9. How many employees? (Part time/Full time) 7 part time 10. How many classes per week? 6-7 each day 11. Do you teach kids? And what do you teach by the way?? yes only kids, an Olympic Sport. Peace ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 5:12am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/89 "2008-01-12T05:12:54Z")
where is this? what is the name of this place? web site? ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pai\_Sifu](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lama_pai_sifu/32/603_2.png) [@Lama\_Pai\_Sifu](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Lama_Pai_Sifu)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 5:16am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/90 "2008-01-12T05:16:18Z")
[QUOTE=the Preacher;833770]SURE, [I] 1. How are you keeping track of their ‘hours’ as to adjust their monthly billing?[/I] each student prepays for their desired hours each month, then just check off when they come 2. Why don’t you take checks? NSF 3. With no contract, what method of cancellation do you use? cancellation for what 4. How do people pay thier tuition? most people I suppose have to work? 5. Do you have discounts for paid in full memberships? No discount No membership only month by month 6. What equipment do you have that people are willing to pay $10 an hour to use? (I ask because I train at a gym that costs $12 Mil to build and it’s only $49 per month. They have a basketball court, sauna, jacuzzi, pool, 300 pieces or cardio equip..etc.) sport specific 7. How many members do you have? usually around 250, each month is different 8. What is your rent and square footage? too much 8586sqft just under $10,000 9. How many employees? (Part time/Full time) 7 part time 10. How many classes per week? 6-7 each day 11. Do you teach kids? And what do you teach by the way?? yes only kids, an Olympic Sport. Peace[/QUOTE] Thanks for your answers, I really appreciate it. Just a few more if you wouldn’t mind.. 1. How many new members do you enroll each month (on average) or annually? Let me rephrase some of the others. 1. How do people pay their tuition? What method, i.e., in house, billing company, your own billing software, etc. Do they pay by cash or credit card each month, as you do not take checks. 2. What is “sport specific” equipment. I don’t understand your answer. 3. Regarding cancellation, what term does a person enroll for? Month to month? This goes back to question 2 of this post. I’m asking how people pay each month - physically. Do they just bring it over to the front desk? If you have billing software or a billing company, and you do month to month, you have to have time to cancel thier next payment if you use an outside company or you have to cancel it within your own billing software. 4. Do you make at least $60,000 per month? I’ll explain this question later and as to why I use that number. Feel free to share your monthly or annual gross income stats (if you are okay with it) 5. What is your average monthly merchandise sales? Thanks again! ---
**Author:** ![the\_Preacher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@the\_Preacher](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/the_Preacher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/91 "2008-01-12T05:47:23Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pai Sifu;833775]Thanks for your answers, I really appreciate it. Just a few more if you wouldn’t mind..[/QUOTE] 1. How many new members do you enroll each month (on average) or annually? ? its a revolving door, I don’t really keep track Let me rephrase some of the others. 2. How do people pay their tuition? What method, i.e., in house, billing company, your own billing software, etc. Do they pay by cash or credit card each month, as you do not take checks. cash or credit, in house 3. What is “sport specific” equipment. I don’t understand your answer. Sport Specific=certain sports require special equipment, this equipment could be considered sport specific 4. Regarding cancellation, what term does a person enroll for? Month to month? This goes back to question 2 of this post. I’m asking how people pay each month - physically. Do they just bring it over to the front desk? If you have billing software or a billing company, and you do month to month, you have to have time to cancel thier next payment if you use an outside company or you have to cancel it within your own billing software. each individual must prepay at the front desk each month 5. Do you make at least $60,000 per month? I’ll explain this question later and as to why I use that number. Feel free to share your monthly or annual gross income stats (if you are okay with it) just put an “x” , “y” or “z” in your formula 6. What is your average monthly merchandise sales? Minimal merchandise Thanks again! ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/92 "2008-01-12T05:56:14Z")
is there a reason you’re avoiding telling us what this place is called, where it is and whether it has a web page? ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pai\_Sifu](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lama_pai_sifu/32/603_2.png) [@Lama\_Pai\_Sifu](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Lama_Pai_Sifu)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/93 "2008-01-12T13:00:54Z")
[QUOTE=the Preacher;833777]1. How many new members do you enroll each month (on average) or annually? ? its a revolving door, I don’t really keep track Let me rephrase some of the others. 2. How do people pay their tuition? What method, i.e., in house, billing company, your own billing software, etc. Do they pay by cash or credit card each month, as you do not take checks. cash or credit, in house 3. What is “sport specific” equipment. I don’t understand your answer. Sport Specific=certain sports require special equipment, this equipment could be considered sport specific 4. Regarding cancellation, what term does a person enroll for? Month to month? This goes back to question 2 of this post. I’m asking how people pay each month - physically. Do they just bring it over to the front desk? If you have billing software or a billing company, and you do month to month, you have to have time to cancel thier next payment if you use an outside company or you have to cancel it within your own billing software. each individual must prepay at the front desk each month 5. Do you make at least $60,000 per month? I’ll explain this question later and as to why I use that number. Feel free to share your monthly or annual gross income stats (if you are okay with it) just put an “x” , “y” or “z” in your formula 6. What is your average monthly merchandise sales? Minimal merchandise Thanks again![/QUOTE] Again, thanks for your answers. I still am a little confused by what you are saying. 1. What equipment do you actually have? ‘Sport Specific’ is quite a general term, can you be ‘more’ specific please? 2. How do you know the number of people that are paying you each month if you are not keeping track of new enrollments? Are you suggesting that the only way you look at is that; you have no members, but 250 new people sign up every month? 3. Do you make at least $60,000 per month in gross sales? (X, Y and Z arent’ really necessary to answer this.) 4. Collecting payments from 250 members each month is a daunting and ardurous task, is there a reason you chose NOT to do it automatically or electronicly? 5. You said that each member must ‘pre-pay’ at the desk. What day of the month do they do this? Please continue to humor me. Name of your gym and website would be helpful as well. 🙂 I know it was already asked for, but you haven’t put it up yet. ---
**Author:** ![the\_Preacher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@the\_Preacher](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/the_Preacher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/94 "2008-01-12T14:25:29Z")
[QUOTE=Lama Pai Sifu;833793]Again, thanks for your answers. I still am a little confused by what you are saying.[/QUOTE] Its OK, I understand. 1. What equipment do you actually have? ‘Sport Specific’ is quite a general term, can you be ‘more’ specific please? …you don’t understand the concept? 2. How do you know the number of people that are paying you each month if you are not keeping track of new enrollments? Are you suggesting that the only way you look at is that; you have no members, but 250 new people sign up every month? kind of like that, Yes, month by month 3. Do you make at least $60,000 per month in gross sales? (X, Y and Z arent’ really necessary to answer this.) and if I did, or if I didn’t? 4. Collecting payments from 250 members each month is a daunting and ardurous task, is there a reason you chose NOT to do it automatically or electronicly? It’s not hard, its easy! 5. You said that each member must ‘pre-pay’ at the desk. What day of the month do they do this? they pay on their first class of each month Please continue to humor me. sounds pretty condescending …don’t you think? but OK does your face hurt? it’s killing me! hahahahahahaha hows that? Name of your gym and website would be helpful as well. 🙂 helpful? why? ---
**Author:** ![KFNOOB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6a8cbe/32.png) [@KFNOOB](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/KFNOOB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/95 "2008-01-12T15:20:25Z")
Preacher: Lama Pai Sifu is asking legitimate questions because you brought up how you do business and it sparked curiosity. LKFMDC-----dont mind him. He’s just a troll and an idiot. Eventually he will suck you into talking about HIM. Guy has huge ego and is completely delusional. Plenty of schools do not use contracts, plenty do. The trend is towards no contracts especially as MMA keeps growing. I do think, in places like NY, it must be much harder to do business without contracts due to high rent and competition. Smaller towns it’s probably more viable. I’d love to buy a few schools that turn out fighters. I wonder where I can find them. I’ll contact a business broker I guess. ---
**Author:** ![IronWeasel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/ironweasel/32/727_2.png) [@IronWeasel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/IronWeasel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/96 "2008-01-12T16:00:07Z")
[QUOTE=the Preacher;833777] just put an “x” , “y” or “z” in your formula[/QUOTE] Okay…I pick ‘X’. Now how much do you make?:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![IronWeasel](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/ironweasel/32/727_2.png) [@IronWeasel](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/IronWeasel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/97 "2008-01-12T16:04:34Z")
[QUOTE=the Preacher;833798] Please continue to humor me. sounds pretty condescending …don’t you think? but OK does your face hurt? it’s killing me! hahahahahahaha hows that? [/QUOTE] And THERE you have it… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pai\_Sifu](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lama_pai_sifu/32/603_2.png) [@Lama\_Pai\_Sifu](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Lama_Pai_Sifu)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/98 "2008-01-12T16:06:28Z")
[QUOTE=the Preacher;833798]Its OK, I understand. 1. What equipment do you actually have? ‘Sport Specific’ is quite a general term, can you be ‘more’ specific please? …you don’t understand the concept? 2. How do you know the number of people that are paying you each month if you are not keeping track of new enrollments? Are you suggesting that the only way you look at is that; you have no members, but 250 new people sign up every month? kind of like that, Yes, month by month 3. Do you make at least $60,000 per month in gross sales? (X, Y and Z arent’ really necessary to answer this.) and if I did, or if I didn’t? 4. Collecting payments from 250 members each month is a daunting and ardurous task, is there a reason you chose NOT to do it automatically or electronicly? It’s not hard, its easy! 5. You said that each member must ‘pre-pay’ at the desk. What day of the month do they do this? they pay on their first class of each month Please continue to humor me. sounds pretty condescending …don’t you think? but OK does your face hurt? it’s killing me! hahahahahahaha hows that? Name of your gym and website would be helpful as well. 🙂 helpful? why?[/QUOTE] Now you are being a bit jerky. You made some very unusual claims at to how you run your business, I’ve been very polite in my inquiries. Frankly, some of the things you are saying just don’t seem to add up. With a $10,000 per month rent and at the prices you are quoting, your rent would be equivalent to at least half of your gross income. That just doesn’t make any sense. Even if your rent is 40% of your gross income, it just wouldn’t fly, you coudn’t stay in business. The fact that you are being incredibly evasive about simple questions like “What kind of equipment do you have in your gym” leads me to believe that your are not being honest or you have completely fabricated your end of this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 4:06pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/99 "2008-01-12T16:06:43Z")
hmmmmmm… three times he “ignores” a simple rquest for the name of the business, where it is located and if it has a web site his “answers” to Mike are so general and vague my guess, NO SUCH BUSINESS EXISTS the most obvious clue, where could he find an almost 9000 sq ft place for less than $10,000 a month? “preacher” is full of it… ---
**Author:** ![KFNOOB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6a8cbe/32.png) [@KFNOOB](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/KFNOOB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673/100 "2008-01-12T16:12:52Z")
Gotta agree. I dont think anyone with 10,000 square feet in any business can run things so haphazardly. Some real small schools with very low rent may do so. Are we talking a YMCA or something like that? Renting space from a gym? [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/should-you-sign-a-contract-for-instruction/39673.md?page=6)