On Basil Rathbone
Rathbone actually was a pretty good fencer. He often played the villain in many swashbuckling movies- sometimes against Errol Flynn as the hero-including Robin Hood.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=TenTigers;948014]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqjBMhV4uSM&feature=PlayList&p=ABA4831F5CF1FAA2&index=35&playnext=3&playnext_from=PL[/QUOTE]
This movie was considered to be Hollywood’s first MA fight scene. Some of you may not know this but many of James Cagney’s fans were appalled that he kicked the guy during the fight. Some of you old timers might remember when kicking was considered dirty fighting.
Rindge,
Google “Granada Television”…and you’ll see a listing for “Amazon.com/Sherlock Holmes, Granada Televison”…when you click that, you’ll see how to buy them right there online.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1czvD3aVk8Y
robert downey jr chain punches jack black in the balls at 2:36 into the clip. pretty funny.
Oh God, no…
just as I suspected. Arthur Conan Doyle would be turning over in his grave if he saw this trailor. This is NOT Sherlock Holmes. Jeremy Brett was incredible, even better than Basil Rathbone - who was very good himself.
But this stuff…Ouch!!! :eek:
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;948073]
But this stuff…Ouch!!! :eek:
[/QUOTE]
Just be happy its not a Michael ‘all CGI no emotion’ Bay production 
DREW
I too thought Basil Rathbone was great.
There was a recent miniseries which played here with Rupert Everett as Holmes … I thought that wasn’t bad, though it made a bit much of the drugtaking for my taste (though, hey, maybe RD Jr. could bring some verisimilitude there … :().
Haven’t seen the Jeremy Brett ones and am interested now.
He looks like he’s trying to be Johnny Depp in that trailer.
Sherlock Holmes is not about blockbuster action, but the use of observation, logic and reason to solve difficult crimes.
And the bedroom scene with the cuffs is so totally NOT Holmes. Part of the interest of the stories is his intriguing apparent lack of a sexual aspect to his personality, which some have later attributed to gayness.
If you’re a big Sherlock Holmes fan, Andrew, and it sounds like you are…I highly recommend checking out the google info I posted about earlier.
The 41 stories that were made with Jeremy Brett as Holmes were remarkably close to the actual writings of Arthur Conan Doyle…(ie.- long paragraghs were taken and spoken word-for-word from the text quite, quite often, but all done extremely well).
I sometimes would read (or reread) a story by Doyle after watching an episode, because the acting and the period sets were so superb that I just wanted to get more of the story defined. That’s when I realized just how true the script stayed to the original stories.
And Jeremy Brett’s portrayal of Holmes - wow, brilliant! He was a very powerful actor, and a protege of Sir Lawrence Olivier. (Brett died young - he was 60 - of a heart attack around 1995, which is why the series came to an end).
And I’ll tell you something else, in addition to Brett they also used lots of very accomplished and established (as well as up-and-coming) British actors/actresses.
In fact, the beautiful actress, Natasha Richardson, who just recently died as a result of that tragic skiiing accident (Liam Neeson’s wife)…she made her movie-acting debut with a leading role in one of the episodes (THE COPPER BEECHES). She couldn’t have been more than 21-22 at the time.
Really great stuff.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;948017]…but when I saw the youtube clip of Downey on Oprah Winfrey talking about his wing chun (and there was even a clip of him throwing a punch at Eric…and Eric going to town on it)…
I wanted to hide. :eek: 
Total Hollywood blah, blah, blah.[/QUOTE]**** me, what a surprise: a big Hollywood actor going on Oprah proving himself over rehab through the power of martial arts having his segment bigged up in a Hollywood stylee! :rolleyes: Even seeing that somewhat embarrassing segment doesn’t diminish the fact that I think it’s great he’s given himself a second chance (OK probably 10th or so) through martial arts, wing chun or whatever, and it makes him a somewhat positive role model and is good publicity for some of the more spiritual, less hardcore fighting elements of the martial arts.
But ribbing you aside Victor (it’s just good fun, all right?! ) I’m in total agreement about the Brett Holmes being good stuff, Rathbone being excellent too, the Downey one being bullsh!t and I liked the Everett one too (the druggie aspect is too often underplayed so that was kind of refreshing).
BTW, as mentioned, Holmes could box, so the chun in the movie looks daft. However, although it was doubtless unintended by the film-makers, prizefighting in those days may have still resembled chun more than modern boxing: there would have still been remnants of vertical punching and much much less upper body movement. Just saying!
Good point about the vertical punching from the old time boxing stance, Mr. Punch. In fact, in the story/episode “THE SOLITARY CYCLIST” - Jeremy Brett as Holmes beats this guy up during a fight in a rural country tavern using the old style boxing - including one piece of very fancy footwork.
I almost fell out of my chair when I first saw it, as the footwork looked so much like the full side step we do in TWC, but from the front stance, the way a boxer would be standing. Broken rhythm and everything.
Btw, folks…I forgot to mention earlier that another (at that time) up-and-coming British actor who played a small role in the episode, “SHOSCOMBE OLD PLACE”, was Jude Law. He also had to have been no older than his early twenties at the time, I would guess.
And now, in fact, in this travesty with Robert Downey,Jr. - Jude Law plays Doctor Watson.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;948039]Rathbone actually was a pretty good fencer. He often played the villain in many swashbuckling movies- sometimes against Errol Flynn as the hero-including Robin Hood.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
yes, Rathbone was actually an excellent fencer; interesting trivia from his work in “Court Jester” w/Danny Kaye:
"Basil Rathbone, a world-class fencer called “the best in Hollywood”, said that Danny Kaye, who had never fenced before, was as good as he was with only three weeks of practice; Kaye was a natural. “With his quick reflexes and his extraordinary sense of mime, which enabled him to imitate easily anything seen once, Kaye could outfence Rathbone after a few weeks of instruction”. [1] In fact, in one scene, Kaye (42 at the time of filming) was so skilled, Rathbone (then 63) could not keep up, and was instead doubled by sword choreographer Ralph Faulkner (which is why the viewers don’t see Rathbone’s face in that scene).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Court_Jester
taai gihk yahn
Thanks for the info. I am not surprised. Danny Kaye was very agile and also picked up cues very well. Basil and Ratbone- that’s quite a story.
joy chaudhuri
isnt guy ritche idrecting it it should be a good movie i think
Sherlock at Comic-con
This just in from the Warner Brother panel at Comiccon where they were discussing Sherlock:
Asked about the pictures of Downey practicing Kung-Fu, Downey said, “Look, I’m not trying to start a riot or anything, but… I could windmill through the lot of you, one after the other.”
I saw the trailer for Sherlock Holmes tonight. I think I saw a pretty clear Tan Sao (or Tan Da) in the short boxing clip.
[QUOTE=enoajnin;949111]This just in from the Warner Brother panel at Comiccon where they were discussing Sherlock:
Asked about the pictures of Downey practicing Kung-Fu, Downey said, “Look, I’m not trying to start a riot or anything, but… I could windmill through the lot of you, one after the other.”[/QUOTE]
Well, he is about one of the fittest wing chun or kung fu guys I’ve ever seen.
But I have to say this after having the chance to touch hands with him many years ago, b*tch please.
Wonder why Downey didn’t practice with some of the WC guys in England there are some very well respected men within the VTA based in England.
Not sure if his teacher is mind, being a student of Cheung’s, perhaps he was disuaded from doing so by his teacher?
Downey in WSJ
I like what Downey said in this interview. I read all the Sherlock Holmes books in my youth and had issues with the caricature he became in the popular media. Downey sounds like they are really going back to the source book, which would be awesome. Watson was played like the fool in many versions, but he certainly wasn’t that way in the books.
SEPTEMBER 3, 2009, 10:43 P.M. ET
Sherlock Holmes: Martial Artist
The star of the coming movie about the famed detective talks about giving the role a fresh spin
By LAUREN A. E. SCHUKER
He’s played Iron Man and Charlie Chaplin, but Oscar-winner Robert Downey Jr. says his greatest challenge may be his next role: Sherlock Holmes.
The 44-year-old actor will star as the great sleuth in the Guy Ritchie film “Sherlock Holmes,” opening on Christmas Day. Scottish-born author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote four novels and 56 short stories about Holmes, and over the years there have been countless stage and screen portrayals of the detective, who first appeared in print in 1887.
The coming film, which was first inspired by a comic book that producer Lionel Wigram wrote to help build support for a Holmes movie, promises to give the Holmes franchise a provocative twist—by adding a dose of martial arts, something that most portrayals of the hero have ignored. Mr. Downey, who did many of the fight scenes himself, says that the film hews very closely to Doyle’s original descriptions of the British investigator, which focused on his superb martial arts skills as well as the close relationship that Holmes has with his friend and sometime roommate, Dr. John H. Watson (played by Jude Law).
Mr. Downey spoke about playing an “intellectual action hero” from London, where Mr. Ritchie is shooting several weeks’ worth of additional scenes for the film.
The Wall Street Journal: Sherlock Holmes is a big leap from previous characters you’ve played. What got you interested in the role?
Mr. Downey: As I remember it, I went in for a meeting with [producer] Joel Silver and said, ‘Dude, where’s my franchise?’ And this came up as the answer…And Holmes was like a cross between two previous parts I’d done, Tony Stark [alter ego of Iron Man] and Chaplin, which I loved.
“Iron Man” wasn’t a big enough franchise for you?
“Iron Man” was not enough. I wanted something else. And ‘Sherlock Holmes’ was such a no-brainer, even as a standalone project but particularly with Guy [Ritchie]'s reported interest and involvement.
How did you and Mr. Ritchie make the film—and the character—more accessible to a modern audience?
Well, I had a fair amount of leeway after “Iron Man”… So we were sitting in a meeting discussing what to do and we thought, “Why do a stodgy version of it?” Doyle never writes a three-page action sequence, but after the fact he will talk a lot about the physical contact that happened. Doyle talks about how Holmes is a stick fighter and a master of baritsu [Doyle’s altered spelling of the real martial art bartitsu]. So Guy [Ritchie] made those traits a big part of the character."
While Sherlock Holmes isn’t a superhero like Tony Stark, it sounds like he still fights a great deal—at least in this movie. How does your character approach action differently?
Holmes always thinks his fights through and wins them in his head before he even physically gets into them. That embellishment is really central to the way action plays out in the movie.
It sounds like the film mainly focuses on the fight sequences and martial arts.
Yes, but not to the exclusion of the real center of the story, which is his relationship with Watson.
To prepare for the role, as well as that important relationship with Watson, did you watch previous portrayals of Sherlock Holmes, in movies, on television?
I watched some of the old movies, but to tell you the truth, the more you watch the old stuff, the more you realize how not traditional it is—it’s not like the stories at all. Part of the tableau in which Holmes is always thought of is him, in profile, with a deerstalker hat and with a curved pipe in his mouth. Nothing about that has anything to do with Doyle’s description—in one description, Doyle says he is wearing a hat, but it’s more of a moleskin cap. The oversized pipe came from something that theater actor [and playwright] William Gillette used in his portrayal—and now it’s always used on stage. When I see Holmes portrayed with those two props now, I always think, "Really? That’s not what the writer meant.
So how did you prepare?
I really wanted to portray Holmes as Doyle wrote him. When I played Chaplin I flew all over the planet looking for clues, but the definitive Western expert on Holmes [Leslie S. Klinger] lives 20 minutes up the road in Malibu. So I went and hung out with him, I read through his book, a definitive annotated Sherlock Holmes, which was probably the modern data center for us.
Did you read a lot of Doyle’s stories?
I read them all.
Were you a Sherlock Holmes fan before you signed onto the movie, or did you pack in all that reading afterwards?
I honestly knew nothing about the character—just that he’s a detective and that he’s a weirdo. But there are all kinds of misconceptions about him. Many have said that he’s a huge drug fiend, but it’s clear reading the stories—he’s not. It’s just that none of those behaviors were considered strange or illegal at that time, so he partakes in drugs, but he doesn’t abuse anything. He just overindulges in them when he’s bored and when he’s not bored he puts them down.
Why do you think Sherlock Holmes is such an enduring character?
Look at “Hill Street Blues” or “CSI”—there have been so many legacies that respond to Holmes’s character. He can be a little ****sure and full of himself, but Holmes is also like that freaky roommate everybody has once in their life, that guy who is a math genius but could never pay his part of the rent. And at the same time, he has this dedication to doing the right thing to the exclusion of doing all other things. He sacrifices everything so he can become better at what he does. As a character actor, I found that trait endlessly compelling.
Write to Lauren A. E. Schuker at lauren.schuker@wsj.com
I thoroughly enjoyed it
We caught a screener last night. I won’t go into details right now, but I will say I felt Ritchie delivered. It’s a bit watered down for a more general audience, but still very enjoyable. I should say that I was a huge fan of the books but I read them over a quarter century ago, so I’m fuzzy on the details. But while there were some liberties with the character, it’s loyal in other details.
As for the fight scenes, there are two nice hand-to-hand scenes early in the film. I’m not going to spoil them but they were very well executed. It’s not about showcasing Downey’s fighting skills at all (they are choppy quick edit scenes that anyone could have performed with the right cinematographer and editor) but they way they are depicted is really fun. Also, in one scene, you can see a wooden dummy in the corner of 221b Baker Street, although it doesn’t have any arms, just punching pads.
I should also say that I’m not a fan of Downey at all. In fact, I almost dislike him. Nevertheless, his characterization of Holmes was entertaining. Now Downey is set for franchises - he can alternate between Iron Man and Sherlock for the rest of his career.
SH is like Casino Royale or Batman Begins - a reboot of an icon, retooled for 2009 sensibilities.