I believe WS sent the letter:))
BQ
I believe you. For the purpose of “documenting” everything neutrally will you post a copy of the letter? That way, if there is ever a response, a posted copy of the response can be provided and the documents can speak for themselves instead of a myriad of “interpretations.”
id rather not POST a copy of the letter in the forum as it brings up a couple of personal things. i would email it to you when i have a chance and i would trust that you not publicly display it.
look my issue with the austin school teacher is done with and has been for 4 years now. i only bring it up because shaolin wookie decided to have a go at the subject again and yet again i have to clarify things and make my opinions and what i know to be true CLEAR, so that there isnt any more BS interpretations about it. The anger and the bitterness comes and goes with me. As someone who wrote me recently " we all have our faults". i certainly admit to mine.
ive had too much time on my hands lately because i have been sick with a bad sinus infection, and when you are sitting around getting well the tendency to want to go to the KFM forums and poke around is too tempting to pass up. These threads are like Heroin. I need to join a support group to help deal with the fact that i have been addicted to KFM forums since 1995 when i first started posting here.:D:p;)
Peace,TWS
Try 5 drops of Tea Tree oil in water in a glass bowl do this 2xper day for 2 weeks then 2x weekly following the antibiotics do not work just makes it worse I can explain why if you care heat the water for 3 minutes in a glass bowl then inhale through nose and mouth gently KC why dont you post the letter with the personal parts blacked out or edited?? I think you said asked him and that denotes personal appereance KC
[QUOTE=The Willow Sword;788060][B]id rather not POST a copy of the letter in the forum as it brings up a couple of personal things. i would email it to you when i have a chance and i would trust that you not publicly display it.[/QUOTE]
If you asked me, I would not post it publically. But if he responds (big if granted) then shouldn’t the answers be looked at in context? Regardless, that is for you to decide and I’ll respect your privacy.
judge pen
Finally back at my computer and sent you the letter via email.
KC. I do regular Netty pots and have already done the tea tree oil treatments and they work fine. i also took a decent regimen of echinacea/goldenseal and was able to knock the sinus infection out in a few days.
Thats ALL for now,, Peace, TWS
[QUOTE=The Willow Sword;788060][B]look my issue with the austin school teacher is done with and has been for 4 years now. i only bring it up because shaolin wookie decided to have a go at the subject again and yet again i have to clarify things and make my opinions and what i know to be true CLEAR, so that there isnt any more BS interpretations about it. [/QUOTE]
Sorry, man. Sometimes I’m a d1ck, and I don’t know it. Didn’t mean to offend you or drive you to the defensive, but I can see how it could.
OT but I didn’t quite know where to post this
Guolin testified in the Frank DeMaria case. We’ve been following DeMaria’s case since last year. There are several posts on our Busted Martial Artists thread, beginning with this one.
Kung fu expert testifies: Students don’t touch instructor
12:49 AM, Feb. 3, 2012 |
A Buddhist fighting monk testifying at the sexual-abuse trial of Ossining kung fu master Frank DeMaria said his students are taught to hit the groin of an attacker but not to touch their instructor.
“I would not let them make contact with me,” said Shi Guo Lin, the head of the U.S. Shaolin Temple in New York City. “Every move, I explain how it would be applied.”
Guo Lin, who taught martial arts in China, was a defense witness Thursday in Westchester County Court, where DeMaria is facing felony sex charges. Four young girls alleged that they were instructed to fondle their 68-year-old instructor in class.
DeMaria, a retired Westchester County police officer who ran the American Center of Chinese Studies in Croton-on-Hudson, is accused of having the girls, ages 6 to 11, repeatedly grab and squeeze his groin between November 2009 and January 2011.
The move, called a “tiger claw,” is supposed to be a quick strike. But prosecutors say the girls were told to keep their hand on DeMaria’s genitals for a minute or two as he gyrated behind them. Two adult students reported his actions to police.
DeMaria is charged with two counts each of second-degree course of sexual conduct against a child and first-degree sexual abuse, all felonies, as well as four misdemeanor counts of child endangerment.
Guo Lin, one of the highest-ranked kung fu instructors in the nation, testified that he met DeMaria nearly 20 years ago and considers him a good friend. Photos of the pair and information about Guo Lin are featured on DeMaria’s website.
Wearing a traditional embroidered Chinese shirt and speaking through a Mandarin interpreter, Guo Lin said the “tiger claw” move was among the basic kung fu moves. He said young students may accidentally hit their instructors while practicing but are not taught to do it on purpose.
When asked if reaching behind and squeezing an attacker’s ***** was a legitimate kung fu move, he replied, “Each teacher teaches their own style.” However, he said holding the move for a minute was improper.
Under cross examination, DeMaria said he allowed children to practice groin strikes with him but maintained there was no direct contact. He said young students would sometimes hit his inner thigh or abdomen because “their accuracy is terrible.”
He told the jury that he was disgusted by the allegations of sexual abuse, which he described as “deplorable” and “revolting.”
When defense lawyer Andrew Quinn asked if any student ever held and squeezed his genitals, DeMaria replied, “That’s a privilege for my wife.”
All four girls testified against DeMaria, as did adult witnesses, police officers, a child sexual abuse expert and a Massachusetts martial arts instructor who disputed his methods.
I thought Guolin disrobed.
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1155876]Guolin testified in the Frank DeMaria case. We’ve been following DeMaria’s case since last year. There are several posts on our Busted Martial Artists thread, beginning with this one.
I thought Guolin disrobed.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Gene. What is wrong with people? This dude, DeMaria was a cop too? . What the hell is wrong these guys? Sandusky, the elementary school teachers in Torrance that just got busted drugging 3rd graders for 20 years and now under the guise of freaking kung fu? Can’t these guys just go and get a cheap prostitute or a quick cheapie massage for a happy ending? why must men continue to exploit young innocent people ? I just don’t get how an errection can be suffice this behavior. sorry guys. just ****es me off.
BTW, yes, Guolin did disrobe but always a buddhist Shaolin monk at heart.
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1155876]I thought Guolin disrobed.[/QUOTE]
Does “disrobe” mean “not be a monk anymore” in this context?
Cuz if it means what it means in English then the story just gets weirder.
I know, right?
But that is the proper term, IronFist. :o
Check out our 2010 Shaolin Special: Should Warrior Monks Disrobe?
“I would not let them make contact with me,” said Shi Guo Lin, the head of the U.S. Shaolin Temple in New York City. “Every move, I explain how it would be applied.”
I guess the second scandal in this story is Guolin doesn’t really teach applications? I’ve never had a coach who felt that an explanation (without hands on demonstration) was sufficient. Are “no-contact” gongfu instruction the norm?:rolleyes:
I found that really odd too.
I’ve taken some lessons from Guolin over the years and he always taught applications. Of course, I always ask when something’s unclear. Heck, I remember Guolin popping my chin pretty friggin’ hard when demonstrating an armlock escape. He had me and one of my kung fu brothers both put him in arm locks at the same time and he wriggled free and elbowed me on the way out. My brother was all ‘I heard that crack. I didn’t know it was your jaw’.
Fake monks busted
$25K+? Dang, that’s a lot of lucky rocks. BTW, wanna buy some beads? 
Fake Shaolin Monks arrested for Swindling
Erika Villanueva | Jul 01, 2014 08:10 AM EDT
(Photo : curezon.com)
Seven suspects were arrested after being caught impersonating monks and swindling over 160,000 yuan, or 25,787 dollars from over 100 tourists visiting the Shaolin Temple in Henan Province.
Dressed as Shaolin Temple Monks, the seven gave away stones claiming that they were lucky. After unsuspecting tourists accept the stones, the fake monks gave advices about the tourists’ families based on ominous signs, saying that they have to give “donations” to get rid of the bad luck.
The local authorities collected seven notebooks from the suspects which contains their victims’ record and personal information. According to police, the fake monks walk around far from the temple to avoid being busted by the real Shaolin monks.
Founded in the fifth century, the Shaolin Temple in Songshan, Henan Province have become famous for their history association with martial arts particularly Shaolin Kung Fu, attracting millions of tourists every year.
However, the local tourism has been defiled by acts of fraud allegedly related to Buddhism and the well-known Shaolin Kung Fu.
In an announcement released in 2010, the Shaolin Temple monks of Songshan have declared that they would not perform kung fu, tell fortunes, sell medicine and ask for money outside the temple grounds.
The term Shaolin came from “shao”, refering to Shaoshi Mountain, one of the seven mountains comprising Songshan Mountain range where the Temple is situated, and “lin” which means “forest”.
When I visited the temple, there was a monk reading palms there. I don’t recall him being far away from the temple. Far away from the temple is sort of the middle of nowhere, as I recall. I could be mistaken.
That said, my Chinese friends were the ones to point out to me that was happening. I think it’s a case of, as long as they are hurting no one, it is okay. Obviously the behavior in the article above is problematic.
Fake monks in Flushing NY
Flushing. Long time Shaolin followers know Flushing. But I doubt this is result of that. I post it here just to show how ubiquitous scamming fake monks are. It’s now a global phenomenon.
If He Walks and Talks Like a Monk, but Has His Hand Out …
Panhandlers Dressed as Monks Confound New Yorkers
By JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN and JEFFREY E. SINGERJULY 5, 2014
In Times Square, amid the dozens of Elmos, Mickey Mouses and superheroes who work the crowds for loose bills, new costumed characters have come to seek their fortunes.
They are mostly men of Chinese descent, with shaved heads, beatific smiles and flowing robes of orange, but sometimes brown or gray. They follow a similar script: Offering wishes of peace and a shiny amulet, they solicit donations from passers-by, often reinforcing their pitch by showing a picture of a temple for which the money seems to be intended. Then they open a notebook filled with the names of previous donors and the amounts given.
The men appear to be Buddhist monks; a smaller number of similarly dressed women say they are Taoist nuns.
No one seems to know who they really are or where they come from. The police have taken no official stance, stepping in only when the monks become aggressive. Various Buddhists have confronted the men, asking about their affiliation or quizzing them about the religion’s precepts. The men remain silent or simply walk away.
They have become ubiquitous — so much so that the Naked Cowboy, the Times Square performer whose real name is Robert Burck, now simply refers to them as “co-workers.”
“They’re littered all over,” he said.
Even in New York, where people soliciting money are practically a tourist attraction, these monks tend to stand out, both for their attire and for their sense of entitlement. They offer the amulet and, in some cases, a bracelet; if they are not satisfied with the donation, they unabashedly demand $20 or more.
This year, the police have arrested at least nine people who have presented themselves as monks, mostly on charges of aggressive begging or unlicensed vending.
But merely begging in the streets is not against the law. The police have largely left these men alone, to the consternation of Buddhist leaders in New York’s Chinese neighborhoods, who portray them as nothing more than beggars who undermine Buddhists’ credibility.
“They are damaging the reputation of real monks and damaging the reputation of Buddhists in America,” said Shi Ruifa, a monk in Brooklyn who is president of a confederation of nearly 50 temples.
Similarly attired men have attracted scrutiny around the world. They are a familiar presence in Australia, where the authorities heralded their reappearance in Sydney with a press statement, “Bogus Buddhists Are Back.” They have also been seen in Canada and New Zealand. In Hong Kong, their presence has merited a Facebook page, Fake Monks in Hong Kong. Overall, there have been few arrests, though the authorities in China recently arrested seven men dressed as Shaolin Temple monks on charges of swindling $26,000 from tourists.
In Toronto, the police received reports a year ago of monks asking for money and threatening to put a hex on those who did not donate, according to Constable Victor Kwong, a spokesman for the Toronto Police Service.
Toronto, like New York, prohibits aggressive panhandling. Although “people thought they were being duped,” Constable Kwong noted, “nothing is illegal about walking around dressed like a monk.” No arrests were made.
Continue reading the main story
In New York, the men have inspired a Fake Monks in New York City page on Facebook, documenting its subjects’ whereabouts, from Central Park to the city’s Chinese neighborhoods, where local monks have mostly driven them away. Last year, Mr. Shi confronted a man in orange robes in Sunset Park, Brooklyn, and quizzed him on the Five Precepts of Buddhism.
The man “didn’t know even one,” he said.
In another exchange, Harry Leong, a practicing Buddhist for 25 years, said he respectfully asked a robed man in Times Square for his religious name and temple.
“He did not give me any direct answer, even after I repeated the same questions to him several times,” Mr. Leong recalled. “I then asked him if he was a fraud, and he ran away from me.”
In interviews, the robed men were evasive about where they were from and generally refused to answer any questions about their background, temple or training. They tended to speak little English, favoring Mandarin, with accents hinting of provinces all across China.
One woman dressed as a nun said her temple was in Taiwan, but declined to give specifics.
“I cannot tell you where my temple is,” answered another woman dressed as a nun, who said her family name was Lin and that people called her Little Lin. “I won’t tell you. But it’s not that I don’t have a temple.” At another point, she grabbed at the sleeves of her robe and said, “If I didn’t have a temple, why would I be dressed like this?”
Another man dressed as a monk, eating a hot dog while three topless women and a Spider-Man nearby posed for pictures with tourists, defended his actions. “I’m not a terrorist,” he said in Mandarin. “I’m not an outlaw, I’m not a thief.”
With that, he got up and began walking toward the subway, saying, “I’m going back to Flushing.”
On another afternoon, a mustard-robed man, apparently finished with his solicitations for the day, headed to the restroom at Bryant Park, emerging minutes later in street clothes, his robe apparently packed in a leather bag.
He eventually boarded a No. 7 train to Flushing, Queens, which has a large Chinese population. There, he and another man bought a $12.99 jug of red wine and repaired to a flophouse that caters to recent immigrants.
Begging is an important ritual among Buddhist monks: A begging bowl is one of the few possessions allowed, typically used to collect food.
“Aggressive begging is utterly unheard-of in the Buddhist tradition,” said Robert Buswell, director of the Center for Buddhist Studies at the University of California, Los Angeles. The monks typically do not even acknowledge the offering.
“No thanks given, no or very little eye contact with the donor and certainly no active solicitation of donations, no requests for money and no selling of amulets or rosaries,” Professor Buswell added.
That was not the behavior of Wang Rongzeng, 64, who was charged with aggressive begging after a New York police officer observed him demanding cash in exchange for bracelets, according to records of a January court hearing. At the time, Mr. Wang told the judge that he intended to return to China in time for the Lunar New Year, then two weeks away. He was arrested again last month in a similar episode.
On a recent Saturday, two women dressed in gray robes and beige baseball caps successfully solicited donations along Fifth Avenue near Herald Square in Manhattan. Ali Sawab, 47, in town on business, had just left a Burger King when one of the women offered him a shiny amulet card with the words “Work Smoothly, Lifetime Peace” on one side and the likeness of Guanyin, the Bodhisattva of Compassion, on the other.
She then gently slipped a bracelet onto Mr. Sawab’s wrist. “For luck,” she repeated as she caressed his arm. But after he gave her a dollar, the woman took back the amulet card.
Mr. Sawab said he assumed the women were inauthentic. “This is New York,” he said. “People just don’t go around touching each other.”
And now it can be difficult for authentic monks to walk around in Midtown without drawing negative attention.
Puttar Chansomboon, a 32-year-old monk from Thailand, had his recent sightseeing trip in Times Square interrupted by a man hawking tickets for a bus tour. The man, seeing Mr. Chansomboon dressed in an intricately wrapped yellow robe, did not ask whether he was interested in the bus tour.
As Mr. Chansomboon recalled, “The guy was asking, ‘Are you the same monks who are smoking and begging?’ ”
Emily S. Rueb contributed reporting.
A version of this article appears in print on July 6, 2014, on page A1 of the New York edition with the headline: If He Walks and Talks Like a Monk, but Has His Hand Out … Order Reprints|Today’s Paper|Subscribe
Speaking of Flushing…
More controversy on Guolin. Such a shame. He was my friend. :o
Shaolin Kung Fu Instructors Shouldn’t Get Paid, Temple Argues
By James Fanelli on November 6, 2014 7:30am
The head of the Queens-based Shaolin Temple is in a legal battle with the state Department of Labor, which determined that the group underpaid kung fu instructors. Shaolin Temple Owes Kung Fu Instructors Cash, State Says
FLUSHING The Queens outpost of China’s famed Shaolin Temple owes its kung fu instructors a fistful of dollars in back wages, state investigators say but the martial arts group’s grandmaster wants to kick the charges to the curb.
The State Department of Labor found Grandmaster Guolin Shi and the Flushing-based Society of Shaolin Temple guilty of underpaying two live-in instructors, Chao Gong Sun and Chao Hai Lan, and ordered them to pay more than $72,000 in back wages and $54,000 in civil penalties.
But the temple challenged that decision last month in a legal filing, saying its instructors were religious members of the Shaolin Temple practicing Buddhism and were not employees subject to the state’s minimum wage laws.
“They are disciples of the senior monks like Guolin Shi who use their time to practice Zen Buddhism,” the filings says.
“The Shaolin Temple is a sanctuary according to the traditions of Zen Buddhism. Those invited to live in the temple may provide some work or service for a few hours a day but, most of the time, these individuals review and recite Buddhist literature, practice Shaolin Kung Fu or engage in meditation.”
Shi became a monk after studying for years at the original Shaolin Temple in the Henan province of China. The monastery, where monks practice Buddhism and kung fu, has been mythologized in pop culture through martial arts flicks and the songs of the Staten Island-based rap group Wu-Tang Clan.
Shi was encouraged by the headmaster of the Shaolin Temple in China to open a U.S. branch because he thought New Yorkers “would benefit from the practice of kung fu because it would enable them to become more understanding of themselves and experience enhanced tranquility,” the filing says.
After he opened the U.S. branch, the Shaolin Temple Overseas, in Flushing in 1995, Shi invited monks and kung fu masters from the Chinese monastery to stay at the Queens location for periods of time to teach martial arts classes and in return receive room, board and a monthly stipend of $600 to $800.
He later launched a kung fu studio in Nolita.
The wage dispute began in 2007, when the state Department of Labor received an anonymous letter “alleging the existence of certain unlawful employment practices at the Shaolin Temple,” the court filing says.
Jonathan Gould, a lawyer for Shi and the Shaolin Society, told DNAinfo New York the anonymous letter followed the 2007 suicide of a monk connected to the temple.
“There were rumors going around that he was abused by the temple,” Gould said. “The anger that grew out of that event led to this ill-considered Department of Labor Investigation.”
In 2010 the DOL determined that the Queens temple owed 11 kung fu instructors who all came from China nearly $777,000 in back wages, civil penalties and damages.
Shi and the Shaolin Society later appealed DOL’s determination to the state Industrial Board of Appeals, arguing that the instructors were religious members exempt from the state’s labor laws and had only been in the United States on a cultural exchange.
In an Aug. 7, 2014 decision, the Industrial Board of Appeals ruled that the Shaolin Society didn’t owe back wages to five of the instructors because they were found to be monks and therefore religious members.
The board said that four other instructors couldn’t collect back wages as well because the DOL could not provide a rational basis for calculating the amount of hours they worked.
The board’s decision upheld the $72,000 in back wages and $54,000 in penalties were owed to instructors Sun and Lan.
But Shi and Shaolin’s Oct. 8 filing says that Sun and Lan were also disciples of the temple and should also be excluded from wage laws.
“It was an arbitrary conclusion that they werent considered monks or members of the religious organization,” Gould said.
The filing also says that if a judge won’t throw out the wage claims, then the monetary amount should at least be lowered because Lan only worked for the Shaolin Society for a year not for five years, as the DOL investigation determined.
Gould said the DOL investigation was “a big waste of time” because Sun and Lan didn’t make the wage claims and have stated they don’t want the money. However, New York law allows the DOL to make claims for individuals. If the workers don’t take the money, the state can claim it.
Neither Sun nor Lan could be reached for comment.
Unfortunately this is not an isolated case. Seems like this has been going on since Songshan Shaolin first came to our shores.
It’s been going on for longer than that…
Shaolin has been a controversial temple surrounded by scandals for over 4 centuries. Perhaps more, depending upon how you want to define ‘scandalous’.
To the defense of one Shaolin school: Not all the Shaolin schools behave in this manner. I know for a fact that the Shaolin Temple Culture Center in Los Angeles compensates his shifus very generously . Better than some non-Buddhist employers. He pay them well so his shifus so they all can carry on the Shaolin traditions and culture in a positive way . He continues with Buddhist practices often as well in many of our events. We will have an upcoming Buddhist event “pray for world peace” ceremony on Dec 7, 2014.
Some of our shifus leave and open up their own schools simply because they want to have their own thing - the American dream so to speak. Our head shifu , Shaolin YanXu- wishes them well in their own endeavors and holds no animosity towards them. We all work very well together still. Students volunteer for all of the other schools although they have their own schools. We all perform and continue to support one another . It is an ongoing very positive happy Shaolin family.
I’m not sure how SFO does it and he has 3 schools. There aren’t much pictures from northern cal.
To the defense of one Shaolin school: Not all the Shaolin schools behave in this manner. I know for a fact that the Shaolin Temple Culture Center in Los Angeles compensates his shifus very generously . Better than some non-Buddhist employers. He pay them well so his shifus so they all can carry on the Shaolin traditions and culture in a positive way . He continues with Buddhist practices often as well in many of our events. We will have an upcoming Buddhist event “pray for world peace” ceremony on Dec 7, 2014.
Some of our shifus leave and open up their own schools simply because they want to have their own thing - the American dream so to speak. Our head shifu , Shaolin YanXu- wishes them well in their own endeavors and holds no animosity towards them. We all work very well together still. Students volunteer for all of the other schools although they have their own schools. We all perform and continue to support one another . It is an ongoing very positive happy Shaolin family.
I’m not sure how SFO does it and he has 3 schools. There aren’t much pictures from northern cal.