shaolin monk in chicago? question for gene

Immortal_Dragon · October 21, 2007, 3:04am

Back on Topic

Agreed on the first part. I am kind of reading that you are taking a neutral stance on the issue. I am assuming since you said you visited Shi Yan Ju’s that you observed a typical shaolin class. Arrived, saw the warm ups which could be considered “acrobatic”, did some stretching drills, then came 18 basic postures, maybe a rest in between, depending on which day you went you probably saw them practicing some forms or some other specific activity, and the last thing was the final “amitoufo bow”…class ends. Kind of sort of right here or am I way off?

Can you share exactly what you saw at the Chicago school? Was Shi Yan Ju there and were you able to ask some questions? Is there anything that is preventing you from not taking a neutral stance? Just curious

richard_sloan · October 21, 2007, 5:58pm

[QUOTE=GeneChing;807264]It’s not hard for the abbot to take one of Deyang’s students and adopt him as a disciple. I don’t know that this has happened for sure yet, but Deyang has several thousand students at his Dengfeng school and Deyang is not the only traditional monk still residing at Shaolin. [/QUOTE]

this has definitely happened. I don’t remember the names, mainly because they switched into a new lineage with new names- which upset some people but what can you do- some of De Yang’s people have shifted under SYX’s wing so to speak I’m sure his line is not the only one.

a few years back there was some…complaint is the wrong word, let’s say discussion, about all the pureland that was creeping in amongst some of the more ch’an people…now it seems that has started to percolate a little more, and it will be curious to see how that gets adjusted.

GeneChing · October 22, 2007, 4:39pm

The bottom line is…

…that Shaolin is a work in progress. It’s been so since it’s inception. Many martial critics have based their opinions upon Shaolin a few years ago, or worse, on something some one else said about Shaolin a few years ago. But anyone who’s actually been to Shaolin knows that it has completely changed since then and continues to change. That’s part of what makes it so exciting. It’s constantly changing. It ebbs and flows like the tide. So the people making snap judgments about what’s happening at Shaolin - like the stereotypic ‘it’s all fake wushu monks’ - are akin to the fool saying there are never tide pools based on observations made at high tide. Additionally, Shaolin is huge. It’s hard to get your mind around 40,000 practitioners in a small mountain city. Do you really think that 40,000 practitioners can live together in that small pond and never fight?

LFJ · October 23, 2007, 4:58am

immortal_dragon:

you quoted me a few posts back, but those were not my words it seems. i think you’ve got the wrong man. and my view on the chicago guy is only an educated guess.

[QUOTE=GeneChing;807264]Deyang, along with many other traditional Shaolin monks, have yet to leave the temple in protest of Yongxin.[/QUOTE]

i wouldnt say it like that. deyang has not left because shaolin temple is his home! he is not staying there in protest. i would not say he is in any sort of protest at all.

I’ve seen Deyang himself performing at a Shaolin Demo that Yongxin was presiding over.

deyang acknowledges yongxin as the abbot, as he is. not to say that he is on level terms with him when it comes to certain directions. but he does not disrespect him. he is there to spread peace and shaolin culture as his duty.

but Deyang has several thousand students at his Dengfeng school

that may have been some time back, but since my last visit a few months ago there were only a couple hundred maybe, or fewer. unless the rest of them are all hiding somewhere else. but they arent at the school.

perhaps yongxin has already taken most of his students?

GeneChing · October 23, 2007, 4:28pm

You misread me

I didn’t say that Deyang was staying in the temple in protest. I said the converse. Or is that the contrapositive? I always forget. My point is that while a lot of people vilify the abbot, there are still senior traditional monks residing within Shaolin Temple. Whether they agree with Yongxin or not is not the issue. Like you say, they acknowledge that he is the abbot and work with him.

Sorry to here Deyang’s enrollment has dropped. He took a big hit after the relocation, but things seemed to be improving. His school is still at the southeast corner of Dengfeng, is it?

LFJ · October 24, 2007, 2:11am

got ya

i’ve found it common for some of those who “defend” masters like shi deyang to fabricate some sort of grudge he has with yongxin, which in my experience of him is not the case at all. that grudge is one those “defenders” have in their own hearts and just project that onto shi deyang and others. he’s a completely free man, as far as i can sense.

as for his school, he’s had the same for a while now at the enterence of the city. but the facilities are not too pleasing to the foreigner. especially those who are just getting used to the hole-in-the-ground “toilet” of china. his school has more of a ditch that gets cleaned out once a week.

i heard a story from one of the foreign students who had a real bonding moment with one of the coaches squatting next to each other there, when after the chinese isnt understood the coach pulls out a bowl of noodles and offers it to the guy while taking care of their business there together. lol

fun times! but on a less stinky note, shi deyang’s students in italy have had a “coming soon” website for shi deyang’s dengfeng school and have now got it up now after a year. www.shideyang.com

master deyang will be in italy over the christmas vacation for a few weeks, at which time he’ll give his input on what he would like to have on the website. so check back for updates within the coming months!

peace!

GeneChing · October 24, 2007, 4:32pm

I totally agree, LFJ

A lot of people project their agenda on Deyang since he’s so prominent internationally. It’s a shame because he’s a very complex person with his own opinions that seldom get heard. I haven’t seen him personally in some time.

The last chance I got to interview him myself was for our 2004 Shaolin Special, see Shaolin Here and Now: Senior Monk Shi Deyang Contemplates the Mystery of Shaolin Zen. Back then, Deyang was very outspoken about not giving foreigners preferential treatment (re: making them crap in the PRC outhouse trenches). Personally, as a card-holding member of the Shaolin laowai club, I like the preferential treatment. I’ve done my time dealing with Shaolin potty issues (see the chapter Shaolin Disciple Xinghung in my Shaolin Trips Episode 3 e-zine article). My own master, Shi Decheng, just opened a separate school, just for foreigners. I can hardly wait to visit it.

In our latest Shaolin special (which I’ve nicknamed 2007B), Walter Gjergja compiled an article The Teachings of Shi Deyang based on his extensive interviews while hosting him in Europe.

LFJ · October 25, 2007, 2:31am

i’ve really got to trace back and find some of the older articles with shi deyang. its always so interesting when he opens up. he has a lot of other talents as well. but he’s been in a lot of european magazines too. it would be almost impossible to look it all up.

in fact, that article by walter was published some time ago in a european magazine. he has that on his italian school website. he’s also one of the guys running the website for deyang.

i have heard about shi decheng’s new place for foreigners. unfortunately last time i went he wasnt in china until my last day so i skipped it. left it for next time. after all that training it is nice to have a decent place to sleep and good food to eat. i cant say i dont miss the american comforts when in china. not really culture shock. just that i like to have something to sit on when i’m in the restroom.

GeneChing · October 25, 2007, 4:52pm

I’m certainly happy for the new creature comforts at Shaolin

When I first went there in '95, life was pretty harsh. It’s gotten better each year. We have some pics of Decheng’s new foreigners hall in Shaolin 2007B. My understanding was that Gjergja’s previous publication of that Deyang article was not in English. Is that so?

LFJ · October 25, 2007, 5:26pm

i’ve seen some pictures of the new place posted on russbo and from friends who have gone there. life looks pretty pleasant compared to what i experienced sleeping with rats and sharing meals with spiders, and that ditch… but i have nothing against other forms of life.

if i remember correctly i think i saw walters publication in a foreign language european magazine, yet his article was written in english.

richard_sloan · October 26, 2007, 2:29pm

I am now utterly inspired to chop some scallions, onions, fry some eggs with white rice and toss in some tomatoes!!!

Great going in, and awesome for exporting when training at Shaolin, lol…

You always want to be near the news.

wutangforever · October 29, 2007, 11:34pm

Re: Chicago Shaolin Monk

Forum

I’m an adult (27) student of Shi Yan Ju’s and can speak personally of my experience there. I have always been interested in Kung Fu, but I only recently started learning this summer. Therefore, I am a beginner. I am, however, progressing rather nicely in my own mind, but I do not have a whole lot to compare to other than in comparison to students in the class. The temple opened in July 2007 so they’re still working out a lot of the details of how they can best train students. I go 5 days a week and have found it very beneficial to the health of my body and mind in just a short time.

The Chicago Shaolin Temple basically has three different classes. The first is wushu, where we are learning forms like Lohan Fist and Lohan Staff. The classes do begin with the typical jumping, punching, kicking, and stretching routines for warm up. Then we typically work on various small moves and later practice the full routines. I’m not quite caught up on the terminology yet so please let me know if I am mislabeling something. We also sometimes work towards flips and other acrobatic manuevers, although most of us are still too inflexible and/or weak to do these well (or at all.)

The second type of class is Yi Jin Jing / Chi Kung. It is probably what you all picture. Part of the class is also Iron Shirt for those so inclined – I routinely get hit with bats and sticks and they stand on my stomach to build up my resistance and power. These classes are typically older students (even some in their 60s), but there are a few younger adults like myself.

The third class is San Da, and its basically practicing punching and kicking pads and working on less artful but more self-defense forms. These classes haven’t been as popular so they haven’t really pushed forward a progressive curriculum yet, or at least from what I have seen / done.

The monk himself is fresh over here from China. He travelled with the Abbot showcasing his Iron Crotch, and was a fellow disciple of the NYC monk Sifu Shi Yan Ming (picture of the two of them in “The Shaolin Workout” p.13).

I’ve seen videos (and live performances) of the disciple he has with him in Chicago getting sticks broken over various limbs and his back. I’ve also seen him lay on a bed of nails and have something broken on him while doing it (can’t remember if it was stone or wood.) He’s also done several intense weapons demonstrations for us after class.

Because I am new at this, I don’t entirely know what you on this forum consider real, flashy, commercialized, etc. I don’t find the Chicago Temple commercialized or flashy, and in fact there’s no english spoken by the instructors (other than a couple words they have learned.) If you have seen Shaolin: Wheel of Life, we’ve learned some of the forms I’ve seen done in that.

I’d be very happy to get some responses from my post. I really want to get good at lots of different forms of Kung Fu throughout the rest of my life, and I am passionate about what I have learned so far. I would love to make some friends on here that can help me learn more about this great art.

Thanks,

Ben Johnson

GeneChing · October 30, 2007, 12:18am

Cool

Welcome to our Shaolin forum here, Ben. We like to have reps of all the U.S. monks here. Nice of you to step forward.

wutangforever · October 30, 2007, 12:56am

Thanks!

Thanks! I’m excited to have found a heavily used forum. I look forward to learning a lot here.

Ben

richard_sloan · October 30, 2007, 9:26pm

Amitabha Ben

LFJ · October 31, 2007, 12:41am

i havent been to chicago in some time. i must check it out if i go up that way again. it sounds like the typical shaolin monk school.

[QUOTE=wutangforever;811661]The monk himself is fresh over here from China. He travelled with the Abbot showcasing his Iron Crotch, and was a fellow disciple of the NYC monk Sifu Shi Yan Ming (picture of the two of them in “The Shaolin Workout” p.13).[/QUOTE]

hopefully showcasing his iron crotch to the public like that wont get him arrested and deported!

and hopefully by “fellow disciple” that doesnt mean shi yanming is really yongxin’s disciple! lol, the generations fit. and the plot thickens…

seriously though, i have that book at home. must flip to p.13 when i get back.

peace!

Immortal_Dragon · October 31, 2007, 7:53am

[QUOTE=wutangforever;811661]Forum