Shaolin Kempo Karate... Thoughts?

Martial Media, Culture and Other Arts Other Related Arts
1

Hi,

I just started studying “Shaolin Kempo Karate” at a Fred Villari’s Self-Defense Studio. It’s described as a mix of “Kung Fu, Karate, and Jiu Jitsu.”

I’ve wanted to learn a martial art for a very long time, but have been too intimidated to start. This school came recommended as having a comfortable atmosphere and a higher percentage of women students. Since I really wanted to learn some form of Kung Fu (despite the proliferation of TKD studios in the area), I’m trying it out.

I’ve been taking classes for five weeks and I really enjoy it, but I’m interested in learning more about the school’s or the style’s reputation. I’m trying to make sense out of this large, confusing new world.

Any information or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Jenn

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Hi Jenn,

To be honest with you, I know very little about Fred Villari or his style of martial arts. However, it is generally considered “wrong” for a karate style to associate with the Shaolin name. Take that as you will.

I think someone was posting info about Fred Villair previously. Try a search under Villari or Shaolin Kempo and I’m sure you’ll find something.

Sorry I couldn’t be more help.

Amitabha!

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

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Thanks!

Thanks for the suggestion to search, although I wish I hadn’t done so. :slight_smile:

I like the school, the other students, and my instructor very much, so I think I’ll just be happy with that and try to ignore everything I just read. :wink:

Just for the record, though, I’m interested in finding other KF schools in the Glendale/Pasadena CA area. Feel free to email so as not to clog the forum. (Or is there a more appropriate place I should have asked that?)

Thanks again,
Jenn

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www.yellowpages.com…all you’ll ever need

i looked these schools up for you but i dont know how good they are or thier reps, but this is what i found. :smiley:

Asia Arts Kung Fu Club Studio
Pasadena, CA. 91050
(626) 583-9009

Chinese Kung Fu San Soo & Tai Chi Chuan
2826 E Foothill Blvd. Pasadena, CA. 91107
(626) 568-0577

Shan Tung Kung Fu Associate
1154 E Colorado Blvd. Pasadena, CA. 91106
(626) 577-0525

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oh btw

if you can make a drive to san francisco then you are in luck, because that is the mecca of kung fu when it comes to the States

6

No Shaolin in Karate?

Shorin=Shaolin in Japanese, as in Shorin Ryu (Flow)
Shorinji=Shaolin temple, as in Shorinji Kempo and the Okinawan Suidi (Shorin Ryu) style of Chotoku Kyan, Shorinji Ryu
How are you gonna call yourself a martial artist, when you don’t even know the history of all Chinese-based fighting traditions?
These names are not modern manifestations, either.

I think that Villari Kenpo might be a little more comprehensive fighting style than say, TKD or White Lotus Kung Fu. Try it. It might be cool, and if Villari was a Pinoy then he probably knew more about street defense than the average American McDojo Sinsay! Later and good training!

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OK omegapoint,

I am very aware of Shorinji Ryu, however, if you re-read my post you will see that I said “generally speaking”. Jenn asked a specific question to which I provided a general answer. Also, I have very rarely heard Shorinji-Ryu referred to as “karate”.

In short, before you decide to question my “martial artistry”, you should learn how to spell martial arts words like “Sensei”. Besides, if you are one of those jackasses who says you’re the “real” martial artist and everybody else isn’t, you got more serious problems than your lack of grammer skills.

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

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Jenn,

Glad to help (such that it was). As long as you are enjoying what you are doing, have at it!

By the way, how far is Pasadena from Garden Grove? If I remember right, it’s fairly far, isn’t it? I was going to suggest a school, but if it’s too far to drive, it won’t do you much good.

Amitabha!

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

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Sinsay=Saying Sin you Einstein…

Don’t frikkin’ tell me about spelling foolio! I’m a freakin’ Grad student. I was making a play on words, Mister Astute. I never said a damn thing about any arts supremacy, but obviously you believe that your Kung Poop is untouchable, as is evident from your reply to homegirl.

Generally speaking, will get you in hella trouble, Coo-Coo Cal! Shorinji is Shorin so stop with the sneaky diss you genius!
Sensei Seer

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Do what you like

If you concern yourself with reputation you will find that the school you go to has none.

There will always be people who will nay say and grief post crap about whatever you do.

Just look for truth in the techniques, expose yourself to as many arts and practitioners as possible and be open to the idea that you may not have the be all end all art that is advertised.

Did I mention have fun?

I left Fred Villari’s because I couldn’t get a straight answer from the top masters on lineage and where the forms came from. When I asked one too many times I was told that I was being disrespectful. WTF? If they didnt know they could have just said so, I would still be there researching the answers myself.

Your experience may be different, have a great time and try to pull good skills and some friends from ANY experience.

just a few pennies from a pig…
-“bigger is BIGGER”

IronPig

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Ironpig

Way to be Ironpig…some common sense and good advice.

Jenn,
As long as you’re comfortable, having fun, and learning, the style and the teacher don’t matter all that much. Every style has strengths and weaknesses. No matter what style you choose, someone on this thread will try to tell it’s no good. Don’t worry about the people who tell you you’re wrong, just enjoy yourself.

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I was a student at a SKK school. It wasn’t as bad as I make it out to be. The reason I left after collecting an arm load of belts, was that during testing I’d use the techniques I learned from Jujitsu.

I did learn about striking at SKK and did have a goodtime.

[i]
Rogue, you’re an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it’s hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L’Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman[/i]

13

The style is a good system. From White to black you learn Karaste. Its not until the BB levels that you really get into kung Fu.

The forms are generic Karate forms. many different styles teach them, the advantage is if you go somewhere else you have a lgitiamate base, not something someone made up so they couldopen thier own school.

You will find that the stlye flows vwery nice, it smooths out the karate, and gives it more coplexity.

Like many styles, it has good instructors and crappy ones. Villaris biggest downfall is quality controll, if you have a good instructor stay with it, if not find another.

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uhhh…

Having practiced with people on the east coast, the west coast and the midwest, I NEVER saw anything that resembled Chinese martial arts.

This includes the nightmare of looking at the Tai Chi that John Fritz was selling.

Having learned traditional Karate forms from Kyokushinkai and Shotokan, I can say without reservation that Villaris does not teach these forms.

Spending the last six plus years working with Wushu and Kuoshu people, I can also say that theres nothing in there that resembles a chinese form.

Sorry to so vehemently disagree, but Villari’s is a bunch of altered made up forms at every level.

just a few pennies from a pig…
-“bigger is BIGGER”

IronPig

15

“Sorry to so vehemently disagree, but Villari’s is a bunch of altered made up forms at every level.”

I have run across the forms in other systems, Shutokan uses the pinions, among other Karate styles Ive seen, even George Dillman has them on tape.

I forget where I ran across the Kata’s, but I have seen them elsewhere also.

I have not seen the animal forms elsewhere, but they could be his own creation. (Dont know..or care)

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Jenn

And remember to ignore the political stuff…like what I am spapping at the mouth about and have a great time.

Dark Knight, I agree that the word ‘Penan’ is used to describe sets in the Villari’s system, but go to a japanese martial art school and see the MAJOR differences and the ommisions. Altered sets. Missing meaning.

I was told the ‘Kata’ forms were the Heian sets from shotokan. nope…not even close.

The animal forms I saw performed and learned were…innovative and interesting…but have little to do with the classical chinese forms for the animals other than the names being similiar.

I admit I am bitter, burned out and badly in need of a vacation.

I have posted on this before, I end up saying the same thing every time:

Villari’s martial art is just that, Frd Villari’s martial art. It may have been deeply influenced by other arts, but now it HIS art in full. I believe he and his art does himself a disservice for calling it anything else.

Fred Villari created an art that shoudl be able to stand on its own without claiming to have bettered so many lineages. Literally stating: using all the good and omitting all of the bad techniques.

listed as they were when I was there:

Shaolin Kempo Karate, Kung Fu, Jiu Jitsu and Tai Chi.

Shaolin is a life study all by itself to gain any real benefit from it. Northern or southern. Having studied Northern and having good friends practicing Hung Gar, never learned any in Villari’s.

Kempo is an art unto itself.

Karate is an art unto itself.

Kung Fu is a generic term for martial arts, also kind of like ‘Xerox’, adds brand name recognition.

Jiu Jitsu is also an art unto itself, a lifetime study.

Tai Chi CHUAN, as it should be called when you are referring to the martial art, is an art UNTO itself as well.

To have all of those influences is great, I can really appreciate the work he put into his art.

He should just cut the crap and call it what it is: Villari Do.

I have yet to meet an instructor that really impresses me. My brother and a good friend are ranked teachers in the style. They have good skills, both get a sheepish look on their face when you ask about the over the top style of lineage claiming.

Its just not needed.

Okay, Rant is done.

That all above having been said, I would study it today if I could get an honest answer from an instructor that wasnt an advertisement.

Jenn, you just go, ignore us old bitter folk and ENJOY yourself.

Damn I need a vacation. I need a LONG vacation.

just a few pennies from a pig…
-“bigger is BIGGER”

IronPig

17

“That all above having been said, I would study it today if I could get an honest answer from an instructor that wasnt an advertisement.”

That is so true. I never really appreciated the style until I left and spent years with other styles to see what is in the Villari system.

I like the system, but no one teaches it very well, information is not complete (For example the meaning of the forms is not tought)The Knung Fu forms are not KF, mabey KF influenced but they are not KF forms.

"Fred Villari created an art that shoudl be able to stand on its own without claiming to have bettered so many lineages. "

I agree, but he is also a business and makes some decisions on money.

18

Quality control of instructors does seem to bite. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with creating your own legitimate system(meaning it works) Bruce Lee did it and he’s almost a god to some people, so why not Villari.

[i]
Rogue, you’re an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it’s hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L’Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman[/i]

19

interesting

“bruce lee is almost a god to some people” that is quite true, but i find that quite ironic, because all he wanted to be know as was a true human being…

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“Bruce Lee did it and he’s almost a god to some people, so why not Villari.”

Sometimes dieing can be the best thing for a career.