# Ross vs. Abel **URL:** \ **Category:** Kung Fu Forum\ **Created:** [October 7, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306 "2003-10-07T22:13:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Water\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ad7895/32.png) [@Water\_Dragon](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Water_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/1 "2003-10-07T22:13:32Z")
OK, here’s the situation as I see it Sifu Abel. Upset that Coach Ross has given up the majority of “traditional” training. Feels that Coach Ross is disrespecting the CMA with his approach. Coach Ross. Feels that Sifu Abel’s training produces pretty forms, but not fighting ability. Thinks the “traditional” method is inefficient. Since both of you train people, why don’t each one of you train a fighter, and put them in the ring against each other? If there’s a lopsided victory, we’ll know if one method is better than the other. If the fight is close, we’ll know both methods are valid. ---
**Author:** ![norther\_practitioner](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/norther_practitioner/32/214_2.png) [@norther\_practitioner](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/norther_practitioner)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/2 "2003-10-07T22:16:19Z")
And if you both to decide to represent your own camps, then the masses will be happy… sorta. ---
**Author:** ![Water\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ad7895/32.png) [@Water\_Dragon](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Water_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/3 "2003-10-07T22:17:53Z")
I think they’re both a little too old for fighting themselves. Unless they are younger than I’m thinking. ---
**Author:** ![joedoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@joedoe](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/joedoe)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/4 "2003-10-07T23:37:19Z")
Didn’t sifu Ross accept a challenge with Mao Shan? And I have seen pictures of sifu Abel and while he is older 🙂 he is not that old. ---
**Author:** ![ZEN](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/zen/32/443_2.png) [@ZEN](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/ZEN)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 11:44pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/5 "2003-10-07T23:44:18Z")
you know what i think? i think that a kung fu forum should be about kung fu, not about two guys’s ego’s and whatnot \*just wanted you guys to get a chick’s perspective. ---
**Author:** ![joedoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dc4da7/32.png) [@joedoe](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/joedoe)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/6 "2003-10-07T23:52:44Z")
> Originally posted by ZEN > [B]you know what i think? i think that a kung fu forum should be about kung fu, not about two guys’s ego’s and whatnot \*just wanted you guys to get a chick’s perspective. [/B] You are soooooo new to this forum aren’t you? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rubthebuddha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba9def/32.png) [@rubthebuddha](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/rubthebuddha)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/7 "2003-10-07T23:58:23Z")
i think ZEN just showed us up. :mad: 😉 normally, i’d say royce would win, but in this case, it’s ZEN by armbar. ---
**Author:** ![T\_ai\_Ji\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d6d6ee/32.png) [@T\_ai\_Ji\_Monkey](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/T_ai_Ji_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/8 "2003-10-07T23:59:01Z")
Zen. The Forum is not about CMA, but about \*\*\*\*\*ing, moaning and calling other styles useless and for issuing useless challenges. Once you get deeper into the study of Kung Fu you will realise that lineage and insulting others become more important than actual skill and fighting ability. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BAI\_HE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb9ed0/32.png) [@BAI\_HE](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/BAI_HE)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/9 "2003-10-08T00:08:01Z")
It’s a public pool. Take a p_i_s_s_ everyone else is. ---
**Author:** ![Kristoffer](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/kristoffer/32/36_2.png) [@Kristoffer](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Kristoffer)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 11:03am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/10 "2003-10-08T11:03:40Z")
_zips up_ > Once you get deeper into the study of Kung Fu you will realise that lineage and insulting others become more important than actual skill and fighting ability. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![lkfmdc](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/lkfmdc/32/14_2.png) [@lkfmdc](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/lkfmdc)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/11 "2003-10-08T16:03:54Z")
While a lot of people in Chinese martial art now subscribe to a new age, feel good, tree hugging philosophy (which is their right of course), a lot of us DO NOT, and whether you accept it or not, we are actually more in line with the real tradition At least in this Abel and I do seem to agree 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MonkeySlap\_Too](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@MonkeySlap\_Too](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MonkeySlap_Too)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/12 "2003-10-08T16:42:47Z")
You know, I am the world’s greatest badmitton player, but I never play against another person, because I would not want them to feel bad. THAT is how most of KFO sounds to me. Martial arts are about fighting, and there are all kinds of forums to test that skill. If you do not fight in some way, you are doing aerobics or folk art - but not martial arts. Not to say that it should ONLY be about fighting. But for gosh sakes, why DO martial arts if you are unwilling to be martial? Yeah, yeah,yeah, I know ALL the arguments - which why most of the time I’d rather have a Judo guy or a Muay Thai guy or a boxer at my back in a bar. Which is embarrasing, frankly. And if you are too old, or to injured to fight - that’s what students are for. BTW - the real ego is the ego that does not let you test your skill and learn from your losses. ---
**Author:** ![Fu-Pow](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/fu-pow/32/107_2.png) [@Fu-Pow](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Fu-Pow)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/13 "2003-10-08T16:46:09Z")
> Originally posted by lkfmdc > [B]While a lot of people in Chinese martial art now subscribe to a new age, feel good, tree hugging philosophy (which is their right of course), a lot of us DO NOT, and whether you accept it or not, we are actually more in line with the real tradition At least in this Abel and I do seem to agree 🙂 [/B] I love how lkmdfc frames this as an either or argument. Your either a tree hugging hippy or you’re in his camp. The real truth is that fighting ability should ALWAYS be tempered with “character development” or you are just creating a killing machine. In the old days it would be like giving a kid a gun and not telling him when it was appropriate to use it or not. There is a long tradition of this “character development” in martial arts training whether you are talking about Taoist, Buddhist, Muslim or Family lineages of kung fu. ---
**Author:** ![Shaolin-Do](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/shaolin-do/32/396_2.png) [@Shaolin-Do](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Shaolin-Do)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/14 "2003-10-08T16:48:37Z")
"I am the world’s greatest badmitton player, but I never play against another person, " What? Trying to take my title!? I shall smash you with my badmitton prowess. The man in the chair behind you is me! And I sit smugly brandishing my badmitton raquet and golden birdie that thus proves my superior playing ability… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Shaolin-Do](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/shaolin-do/32/396_2.png) [@Shaolin-Do](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Shaolin-Do)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/15 "2003-10-08T16:50:09Z")
_There is a long tradition of this “character development” in martial arts training whether you are talking about Taoist, Buddhist, Muslim or Family lineages of kung fu._ Which would more or less be the duty of a sifu to instill these traits… Which has been argued with me before… recently… :rolleyes: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![phantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e0b2c6/32.png) [@phantom](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/phantom)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/16 "2003-10-08T16:54:48Z")
This fight will not prove the superiority of either approach, it will just prove the fighting ability of two people. Actually, it might not even prove that, as anyone can get caught on a bad day. I feel that it is a shame that two grown men feel that they need to fight each other to make themselves feel better. What makes it even worse is that they are both sifus, one of which is pretty well-known, both of whom have students who view them as role models. All this because they dislike each others training methods. What a shame. If sifu ross really does disapprove of traditional kung fu methods, then why does his site still claim that they teach tibetan and indian martial arts at his school? At any rate, I like both of these guys. I feel they have given both myself and others on here very good insight on various martial arts topics. I am just very saddened that they let things get under their skins so bad that they are so easily ready to resort to violence to solve their problems. I hope they see the error of their ways before one or both of them gets injured, in legal trouble, or both. I pray for you two. If you are not religious, that’s cool, too. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Shaolin-Do](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/shaolin-do/32/396_2.png) [@Shaolin-Do](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Shaolin-Do)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 5:00pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/17 "2003-10-08T17:00:57Z")
I know how to settle it. I will pay for them both to fly to texas. I will then build a gigantic stainless steel ring. We will fill the ring with vicious land pirahnas,(sp?) I will then fight Abel and Ross 2vs1, with my feet tied to my hands and a blindfold made of barbed wire. Thats the only way to know who is better of the 2. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeySlap\_Too](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@MonkeySlap\_Too](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/MonkeySlap_Too)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/18 "2003-10-08T17:04:02Z")
Oh get over it. I’ve fought people I’ve disagreed with. Won and lost. Had good days and bad days. Don’t feel the need to be an all-powerful ‘sifu’ hiding behind a moral cloud. The first rule of self-defense is to be a good person. The second rule is to be able to back it up so you know if you negotiate peace, you are not just doing because you HAVE to. The fight may not ‘prove’ anything to the moral relativists out there who can reduce any event into a pile of existential thought skimmings, but fighting can prove a few things. 1.) If one loses BADLY - he needs to look at his training. 2.) If it is close - there will be grudging respect - maybe even friendship. Both are good results. I’m not saying be a bully or cruel, but I am also saying if you claim to do martial arts - do it. Or stop pretending. —SD - we ALL know that SD does not do real badmitton - it is just ping-pong mixed with tennis! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shaolin-Do](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/shaolin-do/32/396_2.png) [@Shaolin-Do](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Shaolin-Do)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/19 "2003-10-08T17:08:26Z")
You just fear my golden birdie. Admit it! :eek: 😃 I think all of our trolling has stupidified their argument back into nothingness… Aha! Ha! Aha. haha. ha… i think the spider bite on my leg belongs to a brown recluse. I hope he comes to take it back before it gets any larger. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Chang\_Style\_Novice](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/user_avatar/forum.kungfumagazine.com/chang_style_novice/32/110_2.png) [@Chang\_Style\_Novice](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/Chang_Style_Novice)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306/20 "2003-10-08T17:10:36Z")
[Results of the Sifu Abel vs. lkfmdc fight.](http://thesurrealist.co.uk/monster.cgi?att=Sifu+Abel&def=lkfmdc&a=S) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/ross-vs-abel/23306.md?page=2)