I have a question. Why is so much of this conversation being centered around UFC? It is a sport competition, with sport rules. A real NHB fight is simply a sporting duel and nothing more. If any of these competitors just went outside one day and started fighting with anything goes, no time limits and no interruptions neither of them would walk away without serious injuries. There is a big difference between a so called NHB competition fight and reality. The whole attitude is different. In the real world you are fighting for your life, not money or fame. You can bully your way to victory by charging the opponent knowhing their is little space to evade and soft ground in the Western NHB competitions (ex UFC). Also taking punches from those gloves isn’t that damaging so you can bully your way into a grabble. If there were no rules , then somebody should have died. In the old days before the Boxer Revolution there used to be furums for exponents to fully express there internal martial arts prowess. There were many deaths and injuries resulting from these tournaments. I dont believe that Hsing I people feel they have anything to prove. It is only self-doubt, or foolish ego which drives someone to embarrass themseves in such a way, which must be felt by the BJJ practitioner each time he has to to question the efficacy of his chosen discipline by engaging in sport fighting. We know our art is effective.
As I stated earlier, all I can say is I never lost, and my teacher never lost to. No shame in losing, but we never did. BJJ, Muai Thay, Kick boxing, Full contact, Karate, Judo, Kung Fu, we fought them all, and we knocked them ALL.
Another thing is that most UFC players don’t study one art, meaning there isn’t one art proven effective because they crosstrain both in striking and grappling. Which proves that even in controlled setting bjj can’t win alone. But anyway, I never heard of any of those guys going to Asia proving their effectiveness against real Kung Fu in a fight to the death or till one man is not standing no longer. In real life no one will tap out so if you struggle with them on the ground and break their arm, you will have to eventually release and the fight won’t be over.
In the beginning of the MMA scene, there were a few amateurs from Chinese styles who performed poorly. But you have to realize, they used completely inappropriate techniques such as opening with “high” kicking. How stupid is this with a grappler!
Chan Hon Chung is Monkey kung fu Five champion, who won full contact in Asia undefeated for five years in a row. Chances are you have seen very little if any, of the underground stuff anyway.
These arts were used for at least 300 years in life and death battlefield situations to survive. When compared to the more recently developed sports(notice the term sports) such as mixed martial arts , one only has to research a little history to see that styles such as Hsing I has proven itself as combat effective over a far longer time span than the previously mentioned style.
Robert W. Smith traveled through Taiwan in the 60’s training in Chinese Boxing, and interviewing boxers when it was still alive, and before Chinese Boxing became known in West, also before it got popularised and commercialised. Here is a quote from his book “Chinese Boxing”, that I find very interesting which talks about Tai Ch and his Tai CHi teacher from Taiwan:
"Diligent practise brings the skill of interpreting strengh. From this the ultimate goal is complete mastery of detecting the opponent’s strengh…Coordinating the solid and empty is the key here. If that is achieved, then you can interpret strengh. After this, by studying vigorously and remembering, one can reach the stage on total reliance on mind.
From this, Liang argued persuasively that Tai Chi embraces within all the conditions of Taoist meditation. I heard that Yang Lu ch’an was once ambushed by one hundred ,and not wanting to kill any of the miscreants, he wrapped his cloak about him, submitted to the beatings, and was left for dead. The next day Yang worked as usual, but many of his attackers took to their beds as a result of injuries from beating the cloaked Yang. I scoffed at this example of the summit, but Cheng urged me not to; even he with but a part of Yang’s energy had once permitted a famed Shaolin boxer to strike his relaxed arm. The boxer struck once and withdrew. When asked why, he told his friends that his entire side had been paralized on contact with Cheng’s arm. Indeed, Wan Lai-sheng writes that when the arms and legs are no longer needed, when the chi holds sway, one is invulnerable to even knives and spears. This is called “Golden Bell Cover” (chin chung chao).
Back in circulation in Taiwan, Cheng soon had a large group of students. And again he was vulnerable to challenges. Once such occured when a well known praying mantis style boxer, Liang Tzu p’eng, came from Hong Kong to Taiwan to try conclusions with the locals. He traded punches (the accepted challenge method) with a leading Pakua/Hsing i teacher, and his free punch put the local man to his knees. In turn, the local boxer did not hurt Liang with his punch, so the affair had to be adjudged in Liang’s favor. Strutting out of the park where this occured, Liang asked if Taiwan had any other boxers. Someone mentioned Cheng’s name, so Liang accosted Cheng at a party. Cheng resisted the challenge, saying that the place and time where inappropriate. Liang persisted until Cheng invited him to his house a day or so later. Liang came and watched Cheng’s demonstration of Tai Chi dynamics. But he was not satisfied. “This is interesting”, Liang said, “but what would you do if I attacked you?” Cheng replied that he would attempt to push him away. Liang, by this time convinced that the small man before him was afraid to fight, resorted that it would be well to get ready for he was about to attack.
At this point Cheng said, “Very well but if you even see my hands move I’ll never call myself Cheng again” (to give up one’s name is so serious that many Chinese would rather commit suacide rather than do it). Liang attacked from fifteen feet with a combined foot-fist action. Those watching did not see what happened, only the result. Liang first was on top of Cheng striking, next he was propelled backwards by an unseen force and bounced off the wall unconscious.
Those who were there will never forget it. Liang himself took it in good grace, stayed on and studied Tai Chi for a time. But before he went back to Hong Kong he returned to the park to see the man he defeated earlier. That one casually told Liang that he was getting ready to challenge Cheng Man ch’ing. Liang said, “Don’t bother I already been there”.
Once Cheng invited me to attack him in any way I wished. From long years of judo and boxing I thought I knew how to maintain balance. I thought. I faked high with my hands and went in low to push his midriff. But he was not there when I arrived. Holding his hands lightly on mine he avoided my attack and in the same movement I bounced off the wall. I tried repreadetly, but never once did I penetrate his posture. his feet moved very little, but the acute sensivity of his body to my touch permitted him to neutralize me and push and lead me at will. Often he drew me forward so sharply that my ear nearly gazed the ground, and then, at the last moment, he would catch me, saving me some nasty consequences. His art goes beyond technique; I have never experienced anything so relaxed and yet so frightengly efficient in my life.
Another time he invited me to attack him. I did. He dodged in, deflected, struck me lightly. He had done this before. But this time he did not stop the attack. Both hands were in my eyes, on my throatm all over my midriff and at the same time his feet peppered my legs. It was so beutifully orchestrated that I could not turn from it. I backed fanatically until I came to the wall, where, after taking his finger from my throat, he desisted. Informal and friendly it should have been, but frightening it was. Against that there is no defense. I am certain that no one has ever been struck more quickly and often in such a short span of time. Fortunetly, he put little energy into the strikes."