# Reminder to everyone **URL:** \ **Category:** Kung Fu Training and Health\ **Created:** [July 17, 2001, 4:13pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199 "2001-07-17T16:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 9:54pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/21 "2001-07-21T21:54:27Z")
ok thanks guys for commenting on my stuff. ive got one more point to clear up in my mind, then i think ill have this stuff down. and the point is about toning. i have always been told that to build muscle, you do low reps slowly. to tone the EXISTING muscle (not to build fast twitch fibres?) you do high reps, quickly. but if you have to build the two types of muscle fibres separately, then your not really toning the muscle then are you? your creating new muscle entirely. so, is fast twitch the same as toning and if not, what does fast twitch muscle look like? is it the flabby stuff? or tight stuff? hopefully someone can interpret what im on about thanks ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 4:52am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/22 "2001-07-22T04:52:38Z")
Think I’ll let IronFist take the lionshare on this one. I covered it a bit in my last post. In a nutshell though: Size comes from training to failure and proper nutrition. High speed lifting with high reps doesn’t really accomplish much, rather high speed with high weight (not so many reps) should build fast twitch. Nutrition has more to do with whether or not you look flabby or tight. I think people who focus more on slow-twitch fibers tend to have less mass and maybe more cuts- the slow pace being similar to isometric training. Sprinters have fast twitch muscles; but so do power lifters. I think it’s pretty well proven that fast twitch muscles lead to greater lean body mass (muscle), which means greater increases in Human Growth Hormone release, and also greater increases in metabolism. Pavel talks against high rep exercise, as it leads to a condition where the muscles are always tense, similar to rigor mortis. This is a really bad summary of what he was talking about, so u might wanna check his book to find out. Okay, that turned out a lot longer than I planned, but hope it helps. I’m pretty sure if I’m wrong on anything IronFist will clean it up for yo ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 8:48am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/23 "2001-07-22T08:48:03Z")
thanks for that. i know you guys have kind of covered this, and im sorry for bring it up again, but ive never really considered bodybuilding in terms of fast twitch slow twitch, instead just toning or bulk. so this is an entirely new concept for me. ill try your method of fast raise, slow lower, and see where that takes me, with 6 to 8 reps. so sprinters and powerlifters have fast twitch, what do bodybuilders have? and more importantly, do bodybuilders move fast? ive got this image, reinforced by my instructor’s talk, that bodybuilders are slow. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 10:43am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/24 "2001-07-22T10:43:07Z")
Pretty muscle doesn’t necessarily mean effective muscle. It really depends on the bodybuilder, how they train, and their training goals. There a few competitive body builders who have absolutely no endurance whatsoever and thus no speed. But that’s not the rule for people training with weights. Competition bodybuilders do a lot of isometrics when they pose. Nothing about the competition requires any speed. However, if you look at that Bak Mei guy from San Fran, Zhang Luo, he’s huge, like Bolo Yeung’s size. Ever seen Ken Shamrock? He doesn’t seem to have any problems. It is feasible though that a lot of extra mass can get in the way of more intricate techniques. I think weights can supplement your training. If done right, they can increase your strength. You really only gain a lot of weight if you want to. In the beginning phase, you may gain 10 or 15 pounds as your muscles become accustomed to weight training, however in order to continue gaining you actually have to gear your workouts and nutrition that way. I’ve read somewhere that long rests in between sets, lifting heavy with few reps per sets but more sets, and not going to failure will help you get strong without putting on weight or becoming overtrained like a lot of “high rep” people. Your work out would look something like 6 to 8 sets of 1 to 2 reps, all heavy, none done to failure with at least a minute and a half rest between each set. Back to your question though, I’d always heard that fast twitch muscles can grow the largest, so I wouldn’t be suprised if a lot of bodybuilders focused solely on fast twitch. As Pavel likes to say, Bodybuilders largely have “fake” muscles, or muscles with no functional purpose. You’ll probably get a lot of slow twitch training in your kung fu in the form of horse stance or isometrics done in forms (not sure what style you are). I’d recommend supplementing this with fast twitch training to complete the picture, so to speak. I’m not used to talking fast twitch vs. slow twitch either. I usually balance size, fat burning, power, and endurance. Kung fu gives you a lot of endurance, but sometimes you may want some extra power, or more muscle mass. I also think weights and western training are better at burning fat, but that’s a personal preference. The idea of “toning” so to speak is considered outdated by most weight trainers these days. Lifting heavy burns more calories than doing a ton of reps, it also speeds up your metabolism much faster. Your diet makes more of a difference than anything anyway in getting slimmer AND getting bigger. Read the threads on protein if u want some more diet info. Actually, there are a bunch of threads that talk about diet. Just hope all this helps. I don’t claim to be an expert, so find some good research by some experts on the 'net if you can ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 12:08pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/25 "2001-07-22T12:08:54Z")
Two things really quick. I didn’t have a chance to read everyone’s responces, but i’ll be back on later to finish these replies. 1: Lost\_Disciple: Size is related to nutrition as you said, however, training to failure isn’t always required. Lee Priest never trains to failure 🙂 But you’re right in saying that the volume required to gain size is high (hence the trianing to failure). @: Lost\_Disciple again: Check out [www.anabolicextreme.com.](http://www.anabolicextreme.com.) Their articles are fewer per issue, but the issues come out each friday. There are a few years of back issues to read, too. A lot of the site deals with steroids, but a lot doesn’t as well, so if that’s not your thing, skip those articles (even tho I read them because I find them interesting). Additionally, they have two message boards: Extreme forum (the steroid board, I don’t go there much) and the TNT board, which is related to training and everything else. The people there are infinately more knowledgable than those at t-mag, and while most of them are Bodybuilders, they still know quite a bit about trianing nutrition etc. Iron ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 12:24pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/26 "2001-07-22T12:24:10Z")
Thanks a lot for the link! 🙂 I wanna check it out right now, but I’m supposed to be studying for my History midterm. hehe Probably get to it after Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 7:22am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/27 "2001-07-23T07:22:27Z")
Lost Disciple, do you have Pavel’s book Power to the People? Get it. It sounds like you are interested in his methods. When I say use cycling, I’m talking about the kind of cycling that Pavel talks about in his book. I didn’t like it at first, but now I love it (because of the gains in pounds). To Ironfist, about working the chest, I don’t work my chest really. I like the side press. I did a variation of the curl that worked my chest a little, but not much. I don’t see a point it working my chest. I can go from lying down to standing up just by pushing myself up fast. So I figure I have all the chest strength I need. Why do you think people need strength in the bench press? For me, I like to hit a heavy bag. And those side presses seem to have improved my punching power a lot. My shoulders are rock hard. I train as a martial artist though. You know more about bodybuilding, weight training, diet, and all that other stuff. That’s what’s cool about the Training and Health forum. You learn new stuff! Of course, I care about how I look too, and I don’t eat a lot of fatty foods. Deadlift, side press, some ab training, and kung fu training keep me looking how I want to look. Keep up the good posts everyone. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 8:06am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/28 "2001-07-23T08:06:50Z")
I’ve wanted Pavel’s book for a while; but my the average of my 2 bank accounts right now is $0.00 (negative $40 and positive $40) and all my credit cards are maxed out. Ohhh the life of a college student. BTW Could you describe the side press? I don’t know this exercise offhand. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 9:36am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/29 "2001-07-23T09:36:43Z")
Dà mn! Lost\_Disciple, I was in the process of writing a long reply to you when my computer froze (again). I’m too pìssed to write the whole thing again, so I’m just going to retype the most important part. I know, getting annoyed easily is a bad characteristic for MA, but my computer tends to freeze on my in the middle of long posts, sometiems I type them in notepad so I can save every few minutes, and the copy and paste them here, but on my last post I was like “nah, I don’t think it would freeze.” But after typing for like 30 minutes, Winamp stopped and the mouse cursor froze. Crape! Anyhoo, enough bìtching, here’s what I had to say. Your work out would look something like 6 to 8 sets of 1 to 2 reps, all heavy, none done to failure with at least a minute and a half rest between each set. According to Pavel, one and a half minutes rest inbetween sets would be too little, and would thus promote bulk. I think instead a workout would be like 2 sets, or 5 reps, 3-5 minute rest (that’s the basis for Pavels’ PTP workout). Not going to failure keeps you from being as sore the next day. Anyway, all the other stuff I had typed was either elaborating on what you said, or agreeing with you, or bashing a few mainstream ideas. Nothing too important. If my computer freezes before I post this I’m going postal. Iron ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 10:58am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/30 "2001-07-23T10:58:26Z")
Don’t worry about it, I get pissed all the time, oh wait, I’m not a good martial artist. Ah well. 🙂 I only said 1.5 minutes cuz there was a recommendation I read somewhere that resting 30 to 90 seconds between sets will keep your workout somewhat aerobic, build endurance, and trim more fat. I agree that 3 to 5 would be a lot better. Maybe you should get another, smaller mp3 player. I dunno, how old’s your comp? Got kicked out of the wrestling/martial arts room today by the aerobics people who wear their tennis shoes and tear up the expensive wrestling mats; finished maybe half my workout. grrr ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 1:05pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/31 "2001-07-23T13:05:42Z")
Lost\_Disciple, I’ve got an 800Mhz Pentium III it’s about 10 months old. I’m using winamp. hmm… it’s partially my fault because I generally multitask 10 or more things at once, but still, it shouldn’t happen. Oh well. Perhaps a defragging is in order. Iron ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 2:15pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/32 "2001-07-23T14:15:13Z")
That’s insane. U might just want to use a REAL OS heheh. . ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 3:39pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/33 "2001-07-23T15:39:25Z")
oh yeah, Windows ME Iron ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 10:56pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/34 "2001-07-23T22:56:12Z")
Heard nothin’ but bad stuff about ME. If you don’t feel like running linux, I’d recommend either taking the performance/resources hit & goin with WinXP or doing something stable like 98SE or NT. Just my 2 cents. . ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 4:29am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/35 "2001-07-24T04:29:40Z")
Lost\_Disciple, it’s better to have a description of a side press and pictures. If I had a different kind of scanner I would send you the pictures from Pavel’s book. Maybe I can get copies and then scan them. Also, there is more to Pavel’s method than just 2 sets, 5 reps, 3-5 minutes rest. There’s things like hyperirradiation, and stuff like that. I know about the money thing. His books are expensive. I had to borrow the money to get my copy. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 5:29am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199/36 "2001-07-24T05:29:33Z")
Today’s the big day the NSA makes the final decision on whether or not to hire me. I won’t find out until tonight or tomorrow. Hoping I should have money soon. Even in the small interview I read with him he discussed more of those lifting techniques, I was just trying to give out an easy one that ummm whoever asked could do to gain strength without packing on the pounds or overtraining. Hoping to have his book before the year’s out. tik-tok-tik-tok . [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/reminder-to-everyone/6199.md?page=1)