Religion

Martial Media, Culture and Other Arts Off Topic
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[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1099342]All religions stem from the same source ( well, almost all) and they are simply different expressions of that source ( that source being God).
Most religions will have very similar cores ( golden rule for example).
The only religions that are wrong are religions that advocate hate and violence, indifference and no compassion.[/QUOTE]

All religions stem from the same source and are simply the expression of that source (that source being a misfiring of thought patterns which when correct, produced evolutionarily advantageous social behaviors which increased the survivability of individuals of our species. However, in this case are misinterpreted, the result of which we see now as religion).
Most religions will have very similar cores because all humans have the same basic survival needs and share the same basic psychological model in relation to fitness.
The only religions that are wrong are religions that are formed on invalidated assumptions.

Not to sound like a Dawkins fanboy, but my answer is just as adequate and probably more justifiable.

I wonder what people will say about religion when bonobos start creating mud paintings on rocks and trees…

That’s not simple sarcasm. If you follow in any way primatology you know that (at least those familiar with the science) are in the process of eradicating what we traditionally thought of as being human. Not genetically. But culture, social norms, language, teaching…all the things we thought defined us as human; we are not unique little snowflakes.

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[QUOTE=JamesC;1099610]SR, I have a question for you.

I’ve noticed a trend in some Churches of taking “The Lord is My Shepherd” a little too literally, imo. To the point that some people are almost completely helpless to do things themselves, almost using God as a crutch in everything that they do.

I’m not saying that we can’t lean on him. That’s what he wants, of course. However, at some point, you have to leave the nest. It seems to me that more and more people are refusing to do that.

I’m of the opinion that while God is our Father, he is also our Shepherd in the sense that he teaches us and guides us, but it is all ultimately up to us. Of course, “I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me,” but, at the same time, “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.”

It just seems to me that so many people are not taking responsibility, not bettering themselves or living up to their potential and God’s expectations.

I believe that after a certain point your relationship with God should make a change from that of a lost sheep or child to that of one who is striving to become more Godlike yourself. He then is no longer a crutch, but a supporter. A Helper, if you will.

What are your thoughts on this?[/QUOTE]

A sheppard is someone that takes care and protect the flock, he doesn’t do the work of the sheep nor does he “be sheep” for them.
God gave us this plant to take care of it, we are his caretakers and we will answer for what we have done to IT.
He has give us ALL the tools we need for that, and then some.
He gives us all the strength we need and even carries us as time ( though we never know it).
The responsibility is OURS.
There will come a time when God will indeed make all things right, and that time is here and started with the ressurection of His Son, the first fruit of eternal life.
We put our trust and hope and faith in Christ and God, BUT WE are the instruments of His Work.
Like you said, All is possible by thhe Lord that strengthens me, NOT because the Lord doe sit, but because He gives us strength to do it.
We indeed shall be like God for we are already in his image, even if broken and fallen and incomplete.

The thing is that we can’t do it WITHOUT God, but it is NOT God that does it.

No child grows up without a “parent” ( at least not in a healthy way) but it isn’t the parent that does the growing up for them.
And when the parent is TOO involved and does TOO much, what do we have?
Stunned growth.
To put it nicely.

43

[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;1099631]All religions stem from the same source and are simply the expression of that source (that source being a misfiring of thought patterns which when correct, produced evolutionarily advantageous social behaviors which increased the survivability of individuals of our species. However, in this case are misinterpreted, the result of which we see now as religion).
Most religions will have very similar cores because all humans have the same basic survival needs and share the same basic psychological model in relation to fitness.
The only religions that are wrong are religions that are formed on invalidated assumptions.

Not to sound like a Dawkins fanboy, but my answer is just as adequate and probably more justifiable.

I wonder what people will say about religion when bonobos start creating mud paintings on rocks and trees…

That’s not simple sarcasm. If you follow in any way primatology you know that (at least those familiar with the science) are in the process of eradicating what we traditionally thought of as being human. Not genetically. But culture, social norms, language, teaching…all the things we thought defined us as human; we are not unique little snowflakes.[/QUOTE]

We’re animals just like every other living creature on this planet. It is a fact that many people don’t agree with, but is quite obvious. We’re nothing more than smart apes who aren’t particularly good at anything in comparison to the other creatures of the natural world.

It has no affect on my belief system, though.

44

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1099633]A sheppard is someone that takes care and protect the flock, he doesn’t do the work of the sheep nor does he “be sheep” for them.
God gave us this plant to take care of it, we are his caretakers and we will answer for what we have done to IT.
He has give us ALL the tools we need for that, and then some.
He gives us all the strength we need and even carries us as time ( though we never know it).
The responsibility is OURS.
There will come a time when God will indeed make all things right, and that time is here and started with the ressurection of His Son, the first fruit of eternal life.
We put our trust and hope and faith in Christ and God, BUT WE are the instruments of His Work.
Like you said, All is possible by thhe Lord that strengthens me, NOT because the Lord doe sit, but because He gives us strength to do it.
We indeed shall be like God for we are already in his image, even if broken and fallen and incomplete.

The thing is that we can’t do it WITHOUT God, but it is NOT God that does it.

No child grows up without a “parent” ( at least not in a healthy way) but it isn’t the parent that does the growing up for them.
And when the parent is TOO involved and does TOO much, what do we have?
Stunned growth.
To put it nicely.[/QUOTE]

It’s refreshing to see that someone shares my opinion in this. It’s something that has bothered me for a while.

45

Is there a non-human on the planet doing something that requires us to protect the planet from it? Furry’s don’t count!

46

[QUOTE=KC Elbows;1099646]Is there a non-human on the planet doing something that requires us to protect the planet from it? Furry’s don’t count![/QUOTE]

Damn… that was my only idea.

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[QUOTE=JamesC;1099656]Damn… that was my only idea.[/QUOTE]

It’s always safe to exclude the furries. Even the hot ones.

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Must save teh womenz

51

For every hot furry, there’s her ugly friend. Be warned!

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[QUOTE=JamesC;1099637]It’s refreshing to see that someone shares my opinion in this. It’s something that has bothered me for a while.[/QUOTE]

I got be honest with you, the vast majority of Christian I know, are *******s.
That said, I find the reason for that is NOT enough Christ, not TOO MUCH Christ.
We are all simply servants on a journey, no more, no less.
There is only ONE master and know what he did?
He died for US, but before that, He WASHED the feet of lowly humans.
Think about that:
God, the living God, embodied in his only Son, got on his knees and washed the feet of his friends.
The significance of this is lost on far too many people.
We get caught up on our dogmatic views and holier than though attitude that we forget that we are here to serve, not be served.
We preach the Good News and that Good news is that God loves us, unconditionally, that his is OUR Father, Our beloved Abba and that we are his children.
He does for us what we NEED ( not want) and gives Us all his love and we, in turn, express that love to Him and to each other, not because we have to, or because we want a reward, but because we love.
Imagine, if you will, a world were people love and want nothing in return and love unconditionally.
That is God’s promise through His Son.

53

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1099697]I got be honest with you, the vast majority of Christian I know, are *******s.
That said, I find the reason for that is NOT enough Christ, not TOO MUCH Christ.
We are all simply servants on a journey, no more, no less.
There is only ONE master and know what he did?
He died for US, but before that, He WASHED the feet of lowly humans.
Think about that:
God, the living God, embodied in his only Son, got on his knees and washed the feet of his friends.
The significance of this is lost on far too many people.
We get caught up on our dogmatic views and holier than though attitude that we forget that we are here to serve, not be served.
We preach the Good News and that Good news is that God loves us, unconditionally, that his is OUR Father, Our beloved Abba and that we are his children.
He does for us what we NEED ( not want) and gives Us all his love and we, in turn, express that love to Him and to each other, not because we have to, or because we want a reward, but because we love.
Imagine, if you will, a world were people love and want nothing in return and love unconditionally.
That is God’s promise through His Son.[/QUOTE]

It’s funny you mentioned that. I’ve got no real problem with people having their own personal religion, that’s cool by me, even if you’re all bat**** crazy, I’m used to being the sane one, it’s everyone else whose crazy!

Anyway, years ago, a guy I knew, presbyterian who was way too high and mighty about how God was gonna wash the world of us heathens with a lightsaber or whatever, got on my bad side, and I told him he was full of it, and pointed out that, if he wanted to prove he had so much Jesus in his heart, he could wash another friend’s feet, right then and there. This is a guy who would never, never do anything so beneath him, and of course, he had every excuse but a good one not to.

Regardless, though I am the only sane one, I’m an *******. It’s the price of having such a balanced psyche.:smiley:

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[QUOTE=KC Elbows;1099704]It’s funny you mentioned that. I’ve got no real problem with people having their own personal religion, that’s cool by me, even if you’re all bat**** crazy, I’m used to being the sane one, it’s everyone else whose crazy!

Anyway, years ago, a guy I knew, presbyterian who was way too high and mighty about how God was gonna wash the world of us heathens with a lightsaber or whatever, got on my bad side, and I told him he was full of it, and pointed out that, if he wanted to prove he had so much Jesus in his heart, he could wash another friend’s feet, right then and there. This is a guy who would never, never do anything so beneath him, and of course, he had every excuse but a good one not to.

Regardless, though I am the only sane one, I’m an *******. It’s the price of having such a balanced psyche.:D[/QUOTE]

The sheer awesomeness of your awesomeness is overshadowed by how awesome your awesomeness is.

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[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1099713]The sheer awesomeness of your awesomeness is overshadowed by how awesome your awesomeness is.[/QUOTE]

I’ll have to use that as a lyric on my autobiographical musical. It’s a bit better AND more topical than “Iranians’ pain is caused mainly by Khomeini.”

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[QUOTE=KC Elbows;1099646]Is there a non-human on the planet doing something that requires us to protect the planet from it? Furry’s don’t count![/QUOTE]

Planet as a whole? Not really. Specific ecosystems? Yes quite a few actually. Although a number of those cases have us involved somewhere in the cause.

57

Ok - got back. SJ, I read what you’ve posted. You can say that your subjective perceptions and assertions are “not subjective either!” and “universal!” over and over but I still don’t see how you can define religion as “only when people want to (pretend to be) be “ooddy-goody and wike five weer odes” is it a sign that Jesus is in charge!” or “the religions of the slaves are the only real ones because they keep people pacified!”

I can see passion and devotion to ideals, but I don’t see how it fits in with history or people on the real. Christians are murderous in their assertations about pretty much everything when they all know that they can just shut up after “God is true. Jesus was the one” - but they simply hoot those honks to justify everything else they think and do, which is far from any “one perfect way”.

Anyway, all I can really see by these arguments SJ is one of the stark similarities between Muslims and Christians - ravenous demand for dominance and enforced dogma.
As if by saying that because it “makes everyone get along” it is valid and justified - and not everyone would agree with that definition per se. Some may wish it were so or that things were really that way, but if they were, there would not be a need for a religion that claimed they were. Seems like…

The source of religion still seems to be people as far as I can tell and in many cases some religions seem to be less about the divine and more about mucking (yucking…) around the mundane.

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I am an ordained minister. Have been for a while. I could have been a rabi, or even a priest if I had wanted to be. No real money in it though. I do not believe in anything religion wise. It is actually nothing more than a scam on the masses. There is no god. And if there was a Jesus, he had to have been a mad man.
It is a very good way of reaching financial goals. I can go to any state and preach the gospel as a visiting minister. More an Evangelist. I can get paid handsomely for this service. I do not have to believe one word of what I say either, and I still get paid. I just have to make it interesting. All you need is about 10 good sermens and be sure not to do one twice in the same place. If you are loud enough and really get with it, they will really love you. It is entertainment of a sort to many. It beats working for a living, and a lot safer than mugging people for a living. They are more than happy to give you their hard earned money. I know Jimmy Swaggart personally, and look how much money he has. Or should I say, look how much money his wife has.
Just remember, everyone that shows up at the church is a believer, so you need not feel stupid doing all that preaching. Hey, you might even toss in some hands on healing to make it look really good. The good thing about this is that it never dries up, the money is great, and you will not burn in hell for it.

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[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1099697]I got be honest with you, the vast majority of Christian I know, are *******s.
That said, I find the reason for that is NOT enough Christ, not TOO MUCH Christ.
We are all simply servants on a journey, no more, no less.
There is only ONE master and know what he did?
He died for US, but before that, He WASHED the feet of lowly humans.
Think about that:
God, the living God, embodied in his only Son, got on his knees and washed the feet of his friends.
The significance of this is lost on far too many people.
We get caught up on our dogmatic views and holier than though attitude that we forget that we are here to serve, not be served.
We preach the Good News and that Good news is that God loves us, unconditionally, that his is OUR Father, Our beloved Abba and that we are his children.
He does for us what we NEED ( not want) and gives Us all his love and we, in turn, express that love to Him and to each other, not because we have to, or because we want a reward, but because we love.
Imagine, if you will, a world were people love and want nothing in return and love unconditionally.
That is God’s promise through His Son.[/QUOTE]

“we”???

speak for yourself and yours… i serve nobody but myself… there is no such thing as a purely unselfish act… anytime i do something nice, it was because i chose to do so, not coz i felt it was right or wrong… i either wanted something or i wanted to please somebody… not to say i am not nice for the sake of being nice, but make no mistake it is to make people around my happy which makes me happy… if being a good person made me feel like sh1t i wouldnt do it… anyone who denies these simple truths is lying to themselves…

60

[QUOTE=curenado;1099813]Ok - got back. SJ, I read what you’ve posted. You can say that your subjective perceptions and assertions are “not subjective either!” and “universal!” over and over but I still don’t see how you can define religion as “only when people want to (pretend to be) be “ooddy-goody and wike five weer odes” is it a sign that Jesus is in charge!” or “the religions of the slaves are the only real ones because they keep people pacified!”

I can see passion and devotion to ideals, but I don’t see how it fits in with history or people on the real. Christians are murderous in their assertations about pretty much everything when they all know that they can just shut up after “God is true. Jesus was the one” - but they simply hoot those honks to justify everything else they think and do, which is far from any “one perfect way”.

Anyway, all I can really see by these arguments SJ is one of the stark similarities between Muslims and Christians - ravenous demand for dominance and enforced dogma.
As if by saying that because it “makes everyone get along” it is valid and justified - and not everyone would agree with that definition per se. Some may wish it were so or that things were really that way, but if they were, there would not be a need for a religion that claimed they were. Seems like…

The source of religion still seems to be people as far as I can tell and in many cases some religions seem to be less about the divine and more about mucking (yucking…) around the mundane.[/QUOTE]

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion.