REEMUL VS. THE WILLOW SWORD

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Shaolin Kung Fu
21

the time between

There will obviously be a time span between now and when i come to Austin in november. when the time for me to go there gets close i will post again. it would be GREAT if other forum members living in Austin could show up to this event and witness the challenge. Im sure some of you would love to come and watch. this would also make for the discussion on the forum here a bit more real about what is crap and what is not and who is living a lie and all that other crap reemul seems to wanna push on me as well as others. A Neutral moderator would be good as well. i will have a partner at my side to witness which i am sure reemul will as well, but as i have stated, other forum members in the austin area would be good.
that way when REMUUL doesnt show up it will be noted and explained here by members that everyone trusts and givs credit to. I DO NOT WANT THIS TO BE A RALEK SCENERIO OK GUYS.
Many Respects, Willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be, i am.
oh and,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

22

I vote for JWT

Any chance JWT would be up to serve as ref? I think he could probably help keep things civil.

Also - TWS, please be careful about making personal injury threats on the web. Yes, we are martial artists, and sometimes a ‘test’ of skill does hurt another person, but it all done with consent. Talking smack just allows the other guy to feel justified to escalate.

And - if you guys keep this friendly, I’d love to see this match video taped, as always.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

23

Sorry WTS

I mis-read your post about bringing weapons. Sorry if I sounded preachy. I tend to rush on these boards.

If someone brings a weapon to a friendly match, they should get thier butt whipped.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

24

no prob monkey slap

yeah i have no idea what this kid, 30 yrs old or older is really about so i put the warning out there. yes this would be something to be video taped. I hope that some of the forum members WILL come to this. i would like sifu jeff hughes or one of his pupils to witness or even be a moderator… i think it would be silly to have a SD or a Northern shaolin tiger instructor mediating the fight. either him or someone else who has a digicam to take a minute shot of the match… Reemul,what do you think?
Many Respects, Willow Sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be, i am.
oh and,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

25

re: Sifu Hughes

I think I lost sifu’s e-mail address, but his contact information’s on the http://www.kungfuexchange.com website.
If you guys go looking for him, just remember he moved his school, it’s further down Manchaca.

I’d help keep an eye on it, but I kinda wanna be out of Texas by October.

Nice job on the site by the way guys (that was u wasn’t it Liz?)

26

whatever

I had absolutely no intention of bringing a sideman or weapons, just me myself and I. So what are your stats TWS?

27

my stats

i am 6ft 2’ about 185lbs. it would be wise and traditional if you had a side man with you ,in case you need to be carried off. its always good to have an ally at your side. mine wont jump in no matter what. anyway on with the training.
Many respects, Willow sword

Whatever you think i am or want me to be, i am.
oh and,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

28

To Reemul and The Willow Sword

If you two are merely venting your spleen, this thread is a healthy outlet for your childish posturing. If you two really intend to fight, you should be ashamed of yourselves. This is not the appropriate behavior for any person serious about the MA. Your instructors should be embarrassed by your behavior. If I knew whom your instructors were, I would inform them of your inappropriate behavior in order that they may correct the errors in your character. If your instructors approve of this type of behavior, then both of you have chosen the wrong instructors to train you in the MA. Both of you are acting as if you were 15 years old. It is time for both of you to apologize for any offense you have given the other.

Disagreements about MA are as old as MA. There are no perfect styles. People train in the MA for various reasons, not all of the reasons include self-defense. If the two of you are instructors you are both behaving as very poor examples to the younger members of this BB and you appear as a couple of fools to the older ones. Dignity and honor art not attributes someone else can take from you. But you certainly can give them up. If you two are serous about the comments you are making and not just goofing off (which in itself still sets a poor example) then both have surrendered your dignity and honor already and fighting will not return it to you. It will drive it further from your grasp.

If you two fight, the winner would not be demonstrating the superiority of his art only the superiority of his skill. The individual makes an art effective. The desire to injure someone who has hurt your feelings (and that is what an insult does) is as great a demonstration of immaturity as the person who has performed the insult (assuming the insult was intentional) in the first place. You are not fighting for your MA styles you are fighting for your own personal egos. It is time for both of you to start studying more deeply about the meaning of training and its purpose for developing better individuals.

To any other mature readers of this thread;

It is time you have spoken up and counseled these youngsters on appropriate behavior, if we do not, who will. If they disregard our counsel we have still set the example for the younger more impressionable readers as to what proper conduct, honor and dignity are about.

Sincerely,

Scott

29

Thank you Scott !!!

That last post just about sums it up. The quote below is relevant I think.

It comes from the recent article about the Japanese KF guys who had a challene and one died. Was it really worth it? No-one really won did they? What did it prove?

It only proved that they were both dumb.

“We had a thing to settle so I did him”
Tamai, 43, was quoted by Police as saying.

30

Hey, fellas

If you need a moderator, lemme know. I wouldnt mind a road trip anyways. Havent been to the Czechstop in West, Texas for awhile (our usual halfway point to Austin). Never hurts to have a witness.

“If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary.”

31

WWWWWWWELLLL!

THE BELTED EARL OF THE KUNGFU MARTIAL ARTS ALL THAT IS PURE AND SANE MASTER HAS SPOKEN. well we cant all be as perfect as you sweetheart. let me ask you a question oh venerated sifu of all you survey, ever been in a situation where the insults keep on coming and you feel like you have to do something about it? My School gets the sh!t stick here in this forum as well as other places. hell you have probably said bad things about the Shaolin-Do school yoursef so dont hand me that EGO sh1t. i have been polite and cordial and freely giving of information on this forum, and this clown as well as others puts me down for it, as well as the other SD forum members here. besides i am not involving my teacher in this and i would not go through with the match if he told me not to. we are big boys and can take care of ourselves. what this is gonna prove to all of you is that if you are gonna talk sh1t on this forum you had better be able to back it up with not only solid proof but with the gaul to say it to a persons face and not hide behind a silly screen name and profile. hell mr scott brown you might be another kid out there qouting some book youve just read about philosophy and how not to be confrontational and all that other clap jap. believe me i have had 15 yrs in the martial arts and whereas i would shun this fool and just go about my buisiness,i am wanting to be a part of this community and be a respected one as well,and if i have to kick somebodys ass to do it and placate to their own ego and insults then i will!!! ive tried everything else but what i will NOT DO IS BE AN Isolationist in this world of screw ups like reemul and not do anything about it. What you need to understand is that sometimes healing and lessons in life are not always a benign thing. being 27 yrs in martial arts as your profile states you should know this.
ANYWAY, this will not change and i will be ever vigilant in my training and when november comes i will be ready. unless we have fought in a war such as vietnam or korea we never reaklly have a chance to really test out what we are learning in this discipline,yes its about harmony and peacefullness and all that,but it is also about FIGHTING AND SURVIVAL or have you forgotten that mr Brown?
well this is fininshed,nothing you or anyone can say will keep me from this with the exception of my teacher,and if you want to “report” me to my teacher, go ahead,i am a disciple of master Joe shaefer of the Shoalin do kung fu and taichi school in austin texas. do what you will.
Many respects,willow sword.

Whatever you think i am or want me to be, i am.
oh and,Jesus loves you, everyone else thinks you are an a$.

32

All the posturing

I have followed this thread and the others that lead up to it for some time now. It seems to me that the Willow Branch is quite fragile and brittle, to be manipulated so easily. To be honest, Reemul just seems to be a very blunt and outspoken fellow. His posturing in this matter seems to carry a tinge of apathy.

As I recall, Willow was upset that everyone who spoke out against SD, had no experience with it. Reemul replied that he did have experience and that he “thought it was crap”(somewhat crude). Sounds to me what hurt Willow more was the fact that someone who was familiar with SD didn’t think to highly of it. I don’t understand this, because from what I understand, Sin’s own brother studied the same thing yet broke away from his brother because Sin was perpetuating lies about the origin of the system.

Whether you guys fight or not, I really don’t care.
However I think the Willow Sword should change his name to “The broken twig”, for being so easily provoked.

…The skilled commander

33

Thank you Willow Sword

Mr. Willow,

Thank you for the humorous response to my post. It was very impassioned. I am happy that you took what I have written to heart and I appreciate your comments and compliments. I would be nice to see your passion channeled into more productive directions. I am sorry for the way you have apparently been treated by some members of this BB. No one likes to be ridiculed publicly as you apparently have been. It is clear that your feelings have been deeply hurt by Reemul and others. I too come from an American eclectic Kung fu style based on Shaolin. It is called Fu Chen and we have about 4-5 schools in California and Wisconsin. I understand that being accepted by the MA community is important. We all want credibility. I understand that a person can only take so much and it appears you have been pushed to your limit. Please allow those who are concerned and care, and who are able to think more clearly help you calm your wrath before you do something that you may regret. Defending your honor and the honor of your style in this manner will not gain you respect. It will more likely prove to your nay-sayers that they were right about you and your art. While it is difficult to do while others are ridiculing you, you must attempt to rise above your detractors and demonstrate to them through your conduct that you are a person of sincere purpose. Historically, many new MA are ridiculed in their infancy. Morihei Uyeshiba was ridiculed for his development of Aikido, it is now one of the fastest growing MA in the world, and it is still ridiculed in some circles. Let the success of your art speak for itself. If others want to poo poo your art, it is a reflection of their immaturity for not giving it a chance. If some poo poo your art based on some evidence of personal experience, let your conduct and the conduct of others in your art prove them wrong. Not everyone will like you or your art. I believe that we should live our lives in such a manner that, if anyone hears something bad about us it will be disbelieved out of hand because of our exemplary example, not proven true by our poor example. It is not too late to take the high road. There is no dishonor in recognizing that you have made a mistake. The young minded may be upset about missing a spectacle, but those of us that are more sober minded will respect you for doing what is right.

I am relatively new to this BB. I am unfamiliar with you, Reemul, and Shaolin-do. My art is only 25 years old and we are still very small. I would not and have not disrespected you, your art, or any other art. Individuals are another matter. Inappropriate behavior is inappropriate whether it is pointed out by a 15 year old or a 50 year old.

What you are planning is not a war it is unethical, immoral and AGAINST THE LAW. It sets a poor example for younger students. You are attempting to gain something that will move further from your grasp should you follow through. The only ones that will respect you or Reemul are the childish and immature. Are these the type of people that you want attempting to bring credibility to your art? All that will occur is that you and your art will lose the credibility you so want to gain.

While posturing is childish, I am happy to take your slings and arrows if it will help you ventilate some of the anger you have. It does need to be expressed in a more appropriate manner than in a fight. That is why people and animals engage in posturing. It is an attempt to avoid physical conflict. So here I am ventilate some more. Get it all out so that you can turn your passion to developing Shaolin-do into an art to be admired and respected

I will be happy to speak on your behalf to your Sifu. Please send me a personal e-mail with your name and his telephone number and perhaps together your Sifu and I can help dissipate some of this aggression.

Reemul, We have not heard from you on this yet. Perhaps an apology would be in order. As I am unfamiliar with the depth of this dispute between you, I understand I may be speaking out of turn. However, fighting will not solve the issue or prove a thing. Swallowing our pride is difficult. We have all eaten crow at times. It is never wrong to take the high road. I am asking to review your own comments relative to Mr. Willow and ask yourself if maybe you have gone too far. If your conscience and ego will allow, please apologize. Sometimes mortal enemies can become good friends. It is not too late, yet.

I hope you two can work this out peaceably. I am at your service to help in any way.

Sincerely,

Scott

34

He said poo poo.

35

Not gonna happen

First of all, as far as I’m concerned, I’m not hostile or mad at TWS. As Sun_Tzu had commented perhaps my comment was a bit crude however it was an opinion based on experience. As for Shaolin Do, To name a MA Shaolin “anything” is to imply that there is actual material from a Shaolin system. However No Shaolin System including Ours recognize any traits of Shaolin kungu in the Shaolin Do system. The History of the Shaolin Do system is far beyond questionable, its a straight up fable, just ask Sin’s Brother. As for whether the system of Shaolin Do is an effective MA, I could care less, but IMO it is claiming to be something that it is not.

I did not bring this challenge and until we meet face to face, I am of the opinion that I have yet to be challenged. All that has occured is that TWS has anounced his intention to challenge me.

36

Hey Scott…

If these two guys were out to ‘do each other’ I’d step in too. I’ve chatted with willow, and Reemul’s personality comes through in his posts.

A ‘challenge’ match is nothing unusual. I’ve fought in plenty of them. Some friendly (thank god) and some not friendly.

In the right setting, they often result in bridges being built. It is only when there are a couple nutcases getting together that there are real problems.

Sure, violence does not solve anything. Sure postureing is immature. But we are in the violence business. Reemul beleives that Shaolin Do lacks content. WTS says SD has it. While they won’t prove anything about the history of SD, they will get a chance to compare techniques. As long as this is done with respect and caution, no problems.

The purpose have having impartial referees is to prevent any real injury or malicious behavior.

Martial arts are martial. We can funnel that with ethics and morality, but when you try to stop all interchanges of skill, you are no longer doing martial arts. Until you have tried yourself, you just do not know. So let them play. It’s not like it is a death match or they are inciting a gang war.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

37

A story…

I was teaching for a week in a friends school when a belligerent nutcase walked in. I had been warned about this guy. He was going around challenging and beating up instructors in my area. Most instructors tried to talk him out of fighting by talking about the high spiritual evoloution of thier art.

When he challenged me I dropped him before his sentance was complete. When I revived him I explained to him that I was not so spiritually evolved, but maybe finding some peace within himself might be good for his health.

A man of peace must fight like ten tigers.

I am a big beleiver in luck. The more I work, the more luck I have.

38

Lol

Thats classic. Would have been fun to witness.

 Regardless of propaganda (Kwai Chang Kain syndrome) we have all learned that talk is cheap and fighting is what we are about.  There is no harm in cashing peoples checks as long as its a consentual event and there isnt any death involved.  I have already offered my services to ensure that it doesnt go further than the fighters specify from the outset.  If we ask most of our sifu's, their reputation was forged through another persons pain.  Unfortunate, but that is the path we have chosen.

“If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary.”

39

I Guess My Last Word On the Matter

You gentlemen make some valid points. I understand I am coming in late in the argument and probably do not have a complete picture of the situation. I know there are nuts and bullies out there that only respond to the iron fist. However, pre-meditated mayhem, is dangerous and against the law. If someone gets seriously injured it will not matter if it was a consensual altercation. Someone could end up maimed or killed. See the link to the Japanese MA in this thread that allowed his ego to destroy the lives of two families and damaged innumerable students not to mention spending most of the rest of his life in prison. I worked for the Calif. Dept. of Corrections for 10 years. The prisons are full of people that let their passions cloud their judgment.

If these two want to get it on; then they should both enter sanctioned competitions. Whether it is a local tournament or or the Ultimate Fighting type competitions. If they want to prove their arts and their manhood, these would be the appropriate and legally sanctioned means. Regardless of the history of unsanctioned challenge matches in the MA, it is not the wisest manner to resolve conflict. If these two want to prove their toughness and manhood they should join the Special Forces where they will have a opportunity to actually kill someone and prove how tough and manly they really are. I know people that have killed and injured people in the course of their jobs and in self-defense. The consequences are seldom worth the trouble their actions caused, regardless of how legal and justifiable their actions were.

I have tried to be gentle, but both these gentlemen are a couple of “wannabes” and they will continue to be “wannabes’ until they grow up, which does not appear likely to occur. It takes character to be a real man not self-centered, ego driven machismo. This is an argument of words and opinion not some nut who poses an immediate danger. That makes their actions premeditated and the consequences of making the wrong decision greater. They are risking personal injury, their own reputations, the reputations of their arts and the reputation of the MA in general. If they have families they are risking the trauma of the loss or injury of a father, son, or brother and/or the expense, embarrassment and trauma of trial and prison for one or both of them, all for the defense of little egos. This is not some profound cause they are fighting for. It cannot be reasonably justified morally, ethically or legally.

I have attempted to interject some reason into the situation. I hope the best for Reemul and Willow Sword. I hope no one gets seriously injured and the loser does not decide to press criminal charges or come back with a bigger gun. I also hope these two come to their senses and behave like responsible adults. I hope they quit thinking only about themselves and consider the poor example they are setting for younger members of the MA and possibly their own children..

Sincerely,

Scott

40

reemul

video tape the fight! ill buy a copy of the video or something