# Question about Fook Sau **URL:** \ **Category:** Wing Chun\ **Created:** [October 11, 2001, 7:47pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515 "2001-10-11T19:47:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 8:47pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/21 "2001-10-14T20:47:28Z")
Both can be correct Hi Sleepflower. Your follow up helps in understanding your questions more clearly. While, as mentioned previously, in the way that I practice, we don’t have a characteristic wrist “flick,” our wrist may sometimes look “loose.” As for vertical or horizontal - we have both positions for fook sau, and usage “depends.” In the slow section of SLT we have the fook sau with wrist bones placed vertically. The flat fook sau can be found in other areas of our forms. The fook can also transition from one of those positions to the other without losing it’s “fookiness” if you will. 😃 Note that if you keep your elbow in its nominal position (mai jang, not fai jang) and without moving the elbow (or your shoulder, or body position) you then rotate your wrist, that the bones of your forearm will turn and twist. [The relevance of this assumes that you have at least some part of the forearm in contact with the partner’s arm, rather than just touching at the hands or wrist joint.] At any rate, our preference for one fook sau position or the other - or the desire to utilize the rotating motion - will depend on what is happening and what the relative positions are. The position and orientation of the partner’s forearm, and the direction and magnitude of their force will provide some tactile indications of what is most effective for the situation. I write all this, not with the assumption that you and I are taught or practice the same, but rather in hopes of offering some food for thought; some things to look at and begin to examine, analyze and experiment with for yourself. It should also be a big help to ask your respective teachers “why” their preference for one way or the other. It could be that they each see different advantages in the same situation, or it could be that they see different situations and are actually in agreement. Perhaps they each see particular but different development opportunities they want you to focus on just now. Of course they may also hold strictly to one or the other because that is how they were taught. These and more possible reasons. In any case, it seems to promise a great learning opportunity for you. 🙂 Regards, - kj ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2001, 10:44pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/22 "2001-10-14T22:44:21Z")
Fook Sau in Crca wing chun Here is the explanation behind the wrist action, as we utilize it in Crca Wing Chun: the Fook Sau used in the Look Sau cycle is called the “Riding Hand” because it only moves as a result of the upward or downward drill of the Rolling Hand it is resting on. This is not to say that it “lays dead” during the cycle, only that it moves with the Rolling Hand, and if and when that hand stops, so does the Fook Sau. The Riding Hand should be draped over the Rolling Hand with Bridge Contact occurring just past the wrist of the Boang Tan. In the fully downward position i.e. when the Rolling Hand is in Tan Sau position, the elbow of the Fook Sau should be kept in Mai Jahng position. This will protect the Centerline with both the wrist and elbow. The wrist of the Riding Hand should be snapped back toward the trainee with the last three fingers metering the presence and intentions of the Rolling Hand. As the Rolling Hand moves up from Tan Sau to Boang Sau, the Riding Hand should follow it, maintaining Bridge Contact at the inner wrist. As it moves upward, the elbow should remain in Mai Jahng position and the wrist should flip slightly upward toward straightening before loosely snapping back inward to Fook Sau position on completion of the upward cycle. At the top of the cycle, the trainee should create a loose, sideward whip of the wrist that resembles the action of flinging water from the fingers toward the opposite shoulder of the partner, as if the Riding Hand were soaking wet and he was trying to throw the water off his hand onto his partner. This action creates a sideward “shake” of the wrist, which in turn focuses the Chi forward and down into the Boang Sau, yet allows the arm of the Riding Hand to remain relaxed. This relaxed sideward shake can be likened to the action of shaking a bucket of sand to settle its contents to the bottom. If the bucket is shaken up and down, the sand will never settle, but if it is shaken sideways, the granules will eventually be pulled down and packed to the bottom. Similarly, if the wrist is loosely shaken sideways and flipped inward, its power will be directed forward on the Centerline. Hope that helps! Tap Man Out ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/23 "2001-10-16T14:21:42Z")
yuenfan You recently wrote an article with Augustine Fong, which addressed the Fuk Sau… What do YOU think? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2001, 3:47pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/24 "2001-10-16T15:47:11Z")
Whipping Hand says: ## “You recently wrote an article with Augustine Fong, which addressed the Fuk Sau… What do YOU think?”. Getting me into deep trouble while I was trying to lie low- the discussion is going in different directions. Folks may not have seen the article yet-the pics speak for themselves. The original question(by Sleepwalker?) was horizontal or vertical. I am assuming we are talking about the basic fook sao which is in the first part of slt. (Positions will vary in differnt applications). The basic fook sao in the start of the slt- (same position as the basic low fook sao at the start of chi sao)- should best have the hand horizontal IMO- with the fingers slightly coming in. The coming in motion(yin/yang energy relationship) helps with themoving forward energy of the center of the forearm bone structure. Once fully practiced this way and the yin/yang relationship is internalised- it carries over to wherever the fook sao goes. If the fook sao moves upward as in chi sao a natural adjustment of the angle - then a little more verticalangle would result.No deliberate flicking- at the end of the motion upward a natural action/reaction physics may make the fook looking like it is being flipped or flicked.Again the tyrrany of language in describing a motion on the net!! I wont confuse it further by talking about different applications of the fok sau.Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2001, 12:22am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/25 "2001-10-17T00:22:45Z")
hello to those who remember me & hello to those who don’t. seems like i’m rocking the boat already but i have a different version & reason for the fook (hooking) hand again. i was told that originally fook was taught with the palm flat & horizontal to the ground(tan turned at 90 degrees).the reason the hand positioned was changed to have the hooking shape is so that it takes the emphasis away from the wrist when pushing foward(apparently when it was first being taught students had a hard time using force from the elbow) the hand position we use is dictated by our wrist, the position of which is vertical(the top bone in the wrist directly above the other) on the question of its use & position in chi sao, well i sat here for quite some time & was unable to put into words(to my satisfaction) for the moment an adequete response, however one thing i will say is that we never use the hand held in this position to hook or lock an opponent. i’ve never really ask about using it like that as that is not what we were told it was for but also to me using it like that would indicate the use of streght through the wrist, which again to us is a no no. it’s good to be back & am looking foward to some excellent conversations. vts ---
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Yuan Fen - Fook Sau In my opinion, your Fook Sau explanation was noncommital and uninformative. It’s just my opinion. I have a question for you, Are you the older guy in the article photos with Sifu Augustine Fong in the article everyone is discussing? [This message was edited by Sihing73 on 10-23-01 at 09:55 AM.] ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 2:19am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/27 "2001-10-23T02:19:19Z")
You like you’re Wing Chun spoon fed, do you? [This message was edited by Whipping Hand on 10-23-01 at 10:27 AM.] ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 3:22am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/28 "2001-10-23T03:22:20Z")
biujeedawg uninformative on fook sau? In the previous post I just addressed the vertical versus the horizontal issued brought out on the thread. Not a dissertaion on the fook sao. In what sense is it uninformative? What would you like to clarify or have clarified? Ball on your court. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 4:04am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/29 "2001-10-23T04:04:13Z")
Response for Yuan Fen I am not uninformed about the Fook Sau. I am sorry. Could you clarify the psychobabble you used to describe Fook Sau and how it relates to combat sticky hands or real fighting? [This message was edited by Sihing73 on 10-23-01 at 12:47 PM.] ---
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biujeedawg No point in my directing to you more of what you label as “psychobabel”. You say that you are not uninformed. Why not share the substance of your knowledge with others on the list? Hopefully you will go beyond labels to ideas and substance. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2001, 10:43pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/31 "2001-10-23T22:43:44Z")
BiuJeeDawg “relates to combat sticky hands or real fighting?” What is “combat sticky hands”? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2001, 1:15pm UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/32 "2001-10-25T13:15:01Z")
fook horizontal, or similar to jut i think fook should be done horizontally most of the time. i do it with a flick of the wrist inward so it has a bit more of a garb to it. fook sau can also be done sort of like jut sau but with the palm facing down and it drawing back toward you and not down as in jut. fook is done this way on the dummy set. know yourself don’t show yourself, think well of yorself don’t tell of yourself. lao tzu ---
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combat sticky hands From what little exposure I’ve had to it, I understand it to be chi sau with improvised attacking and defending; a type of sparring somewhat. Tap Man could better explain. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex034/uploads/kungfumagazine/original/2X/e/ee79c1ddba056fb2c94515d43d7de1be82ac7fa6.png) [@system](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2001, 6:33am UTC](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515/34 "2001-10-28T06:33:01Z")
Anyone who sees their chi sau as a combat of any kind, is wasting his time with Wing Chun. ---
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Sure, chi sau is a “laboratory”. “Combat” just describes how you’re doing it; meaning, improvising attacks, counters and such. I don’t know what’s up with BiujeeDawg or his insults to yuan fen. :rolleyes: ☹ ---
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Vertical fist asks: ## “I don’t know what’s up with BiujeeDawg or his insults to yuan fen” Dunno. Strange. Have never done anything for him \ ---
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Too much “combat chi sau”. He hasn’t learned how to harness his “chi” yet. ---
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Reply to Yuan Fen & Whipping Hand According to my study, Wing Chun is a combat system comprised of theories and principles which varies depending on the “Individual”. Wing Chun is very adaptable to the individual which translates into individual interpretation. I am a devoted practioner of CRCA Wing Chun. I will attempt to give you a very brief explanation of CRCA’s interpretation of “Fook Sau” and “Combat Sticky Hands”. Fook Sau also known as Bridging hand uses palm and/or fingers to control the opponent. The thumb and index finger are extended and pinched together lightly while the other three fingers are closed with the hand turned slightly downward. The wrist is on the Centerline and bent sharply inward. The elbow is bent 135° and the rotation of the forearm should put the thumb side of the wrist bone facing upward. The inner forearm muscle should remain soft and relaxed. In Chee Sau, Fook Sau is referred to as a “Riding Hand” which refers to the relaxed-wrist, elbow-in Fook Sau position which itself initiates no positive action in the cycle. The Fook Sau “rides” the Rolling Hand(Boang Sau) with constant light forward/inward pressure. Also, Fook Sau is not another name for Hooking hand. Gwoh Sau" can be translated as “Crossing Hands” or, more commonly, “Combat Double Sticky Hands”. Gwoh Sau should be thought of as a form of cooperative exercise - like Siu Leem Tau with a partner - not as a real fight. Gwoh Sau is by nature competitive but, like all great physical contests, it is governed by strict rules and participants should display sportsmanlike conduct throughout the exercise, even on the unavoidable occasions when someone is accidentally hit with excessive force during the heat of competition. ---
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biujeedawg Thanks for the description of your fook sao-the devil is in the details and details can vary. Gee I am learning whipping hand’s brevity- hope he forgives me. 🆒 ---
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BiuJeeDawg You use a lot of words, but you don’t say much. [Previous page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.kungfumagazine.com/t/question-about-fook-sau/3515.md?page=3)