okay now that i got you to look, i want you to prove me wrong in this statement.
To be a good standup fighter in kung fu , you need
1 power and speed (power being internal or external)
or
2 speed with extreemly precise strikes to points to disable your oponent , ie pressure point strikes. Or against a much less worthy opponent, strikes to the groin knee cap etc…
3 speed and execively hard weapons , ie hard shins forearms and fists.
with the exception of tai ji and some of the more chin na orientated martial arts, and things like iron body. I believe
these three statements are the end all and be all of kung fu (fighting wise).
Take bagua and hung gar , remove the internal power from bagua and hung gar , and the system is destroyed, you will run circles round your opponent without diong damage, in hung gar you will hit hard but it wont be hard !!
take wing chun , remove the precise striking and hard hands , and the system relies on speed for power , which doesnt work… speed alone is empty. Imagine a polystyrene car crashing into you , compared to a truck.
The way i see this is the reason most people dont get anywhere with kung fu as they miss out power because the training is too strenuous (weight lifting) or too boring (chi kung) and they believe that speed is enough even though they dont know how to hit a pressure point whilst the oppoent is standing still let alone running around.
I want to hear your opinions.
what do bin laden and general custer have in common???
They’re both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo
Reminds me of an old quote from Wyatt Erp. “Speed is good, but acuracy if final.”
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
This is not an exception to Taiji. If all you do is yield, you’re gonna get yourclock cleaned.
Most actions of men can be explained by observing a pack of dogs. Not wild dogs, just neighborhood dogs who all scurry under the fence on the same night and set off together to reclaim a glimmer of the glory their species possessed before domestication.
I would have to disagree with the system would be “destroyed” relating to Bagau. I am by all means very new to Bagua, but so much of it has to do with position and angle, that there are many devastating moves that do not require much internal power to be effective. But, by taking the internal away from Bagua it would indeed be nowhere near as effective.
Victory goes to he who makes the next-to-last mistake.
Most of the Kung Fu guys I ran into were wussies. You wouldn’t believe the times I’ve plowed through people who were technically light years ahead of me. It was more or less due to one thing. I was willing to go all out after them. They were too afraid of being hit to come after me. If these same guys would come at me without the fear, they would slaughter me.
Most actions of men can be explained by observing a pack of dogs. Not wild dogs, just neighborhood dogs who all scurry under the fence on the same night and set off together to reclaim a glimmer of the glory their species possessed before domestication.
Courage is definately a factor. I think it takes speed,power and accuracy- one can be comprimised but one of the others must step up to compensate for the weeknesses. This is an obvious ansmer but very true. I could get hit all day by someone with no power and only need to land one or two crushing blows to end the confrontation, likewise
If someone is very powerful but very slow was trying to attack me-blocking and dodgin would be very easy-so hitting them would be easier.
In my opinion it takes all three. Maybe accuracy could be compromised due to the fact if your powerful and fast-you could probably mow them down still.
Merryprankster, I’ve always wondered if the jaw is as important as the neck when it comes to someone’s “chin”. I’ve seen some thick neck guys take some shots and never go down (like Butterbean :)), but I wondered if it was because of the strength of their jaw, or neck.
I feel that wongsifu is talking about the physical/technical aspect of an effective striker, so opening the “mental factor” can of worms may be straying off topic. Then again, maybe not. If you’re too afraid to get inside your opponent’s defense to deliver the strikes that you’ve trained so long to execute properly then that won’t do you any good. The problem is that people are afraid to get inside the range of their opponent’s strikes. They have to remember if they’re in range, so is the opponent (yes even if the guys has a couple of inches of reach on you, unless he’s got like 10-12 inches on you :))
Jaguar Wong
[i]“If you learn to balance a tack hammer on your head
then you learn to head up a balanced attack!”
You must also be willing to accept the fact that you will almost always get hit during a street fight. On the street, your M/A will not look pretty, you will not look like Van Damme or Segal. It’s dirty, uncontrolled and you must be able to think through your fear. Many practicioners, no matter the style, are not very resourceful(SP?). A brick wall can be a very effective weapon, yet most would see it as a limitation and be forced not to use a certain technique because of space requirements. Another thing is the pain factor if you have never been hit For Real, especially in the face. It really only stuns you during the encounter (a direct shot to the nose is like a big “bang”). When the adrenaline goes away, then it starts to hurt a little. I had my nose broken in a fight and really did not know it was broke for about two more hours. I just thought it was a good shot even though the blood flow was tremendous.
My mindset = Win now…hurt later.
Victory goes to he who makes the next-to-last mistake.
Yeah, I was wondering because I read an issue of Sport Illustrated way back when Tyson was on top of the world that illustrated the aspects of a KO in boxing, from a medical perspective. Taking a shot on the side of the jaw generally whipped the head to one side, but when the head stopped, the brain keeps going. I think it mentioned something about severing numerous capilaries that sure didn’t help, causing the guy to suffer a loss of oxygen to the brain.
I think there was something about the uppercut as well. I’m not sure, but I think they mentioned the head whipping back, and pinching nerves in the neck, causing the KO. I wonder if I can find that somewhere. Anyway, I thought the thick neck meant the head didn’t go anywhere it didn’t want to, unless a HUGE amount of force was applied
Jaguar Wong
[i]“If you learn to balance a tack hammer on your head
then you learn to head up a balanced attack!”
I agree with most, but I think that applies to boxing, and most other forms too.
Show me a boxer without speed and power. What do you have? Me
I know from boxing, just because there is alot of it, that KO power comes not only from hard hits, but from UNEXPECTED hits. Quick short sharp punchers are great KO artists because the opponent cannot prepare well for the shot.
In kung fu and other arts, I think accuracy can be imprtant to a point. If you can get a solid blow to the head, you are doing great. IF you can daze the opponent temporarily, then you can get more precise on a follow-up attack.
I think what is missing here are these requirements to be truly effictive:
Flowing from one technique to another. One shot probably will not do it on anybody who can take a good shot.
Ability to take a shot and stay focused on the fight, and continue the attack in a controlled manner. Boxers EXPECT to get a hit in the face. It is generally not a big problem to them when they take five or ten shots, as long as they do not get truly hurt. They don’t go bezerk they keep focused on the fight
That would make sense: A muscle’s strength is directly proportional to it’s cross-sectional area, not to mention the added advantage of having a “less” whippy neck.
But at least now it’s obvious that the gloves don’t protect the head since it’s blunt shock that makes the brain rattle
CD Lee,
The mental aspects that you’ve mentioned seem to be the common thought. You can’t fear getting hit, because it affects the way you employ your strikes. avoiding taking any damage becomes your number one priority, so you’re basically on the defensive, which most people will tell you doesn’t always work.
As for the flow. Great point. The reliance on the one shot - one kill that many McDojo/McKwoon martial artists are deluding themselves with is just going to hurt their actual technical skill. If one strike lands, then the next has a better chance to hit a more favorable target.
Merryprankster,
I’ve got a “whippy” neck I guess that spells “Glass Jaw” for the ol’ Jaguar. My neck is part of my weak upper body which really limits my effectiveness on the inside.
Jaguar Wong
[i]“If you learn to balance a tack hammer on your head
then you learn to head up a balanced attack!”
Is weight training a big factor in standup striking??? I mean weight training will increase your strength and your bulk but I don’t think it’s necessary for striking ability. Although the bigger u are…the harder you hit is TRUE. But I think technique, exceptional footwork is a must! I understand boxers and thai boxers work on body weight exercises more than weight training. To maintain the cardio. The rest is on sparring and other related striking drills. Speed may not be too necessary…guys like PEDRO RIZZO rely more on accuracy than speed although it’s a PLUS!!! However to be a good striker in the realm of street fighting please add the ANTI TAKEDOWN abilities…1.) sprawling tactics 2.) cross face 3.) wiz tactics from freestyle wreslting! Understanding ANTI TAKEDOWN tactics and knowing when and how to use them will help u defeat the varsity HS or College grapplers.
You forgot intelligence, reflexes, and proper form. Proper form is partially where the power and speed come from. Proper form also allows for good follow ups/combinations. And there are a crapload of other things that are important too.
